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Post by cj7floyd on Jan 20, 2011 22:28:02 GMT -5
I am interested in any information anyone has regarding the following line. I have pretty good info up to Mary Blight but the rest is pretty sketchy as far as documentation, stories, pictures or oral family history. I am a descendant of this family line living in Alaska and cannot travel to Cornwall to do research... so pretty much anything that anyone can add is appreciated!
Also, I am specifically looking for the full name and any info on the wife of John Otes (1580 - 1608). I found a link on another page that suggests her first name may have been Margaret.
John Otes (1580 - 1608) John Ots Otts (1600 - 1665), Son of John Richard Oates (1630 - 1662), Son of John Ots Anthony Oats (1659 - 1714), Son of Richard Jane James (1695 - 1724), Daughter of Anthony Nicholas Oates (1712 - 1761), Son of Jane Jane Oates (1732 - 1826), Daughter of Nicholas Prudence Goninnan (1747 - 1809), Daughter of Jane Mary Blight (1778 - 1877), Daughter of Prudence Richard Floyd (1813 - 1851), Son of Mary Thomas Floyd (1842 - 1913), Son of Richard
I can help with family stories and pictures for the Floyd line from Thomas on down through Australian emigration to final settlement in the U.S. West following the US Civil War.
Thanks in advance for any time or thought you may give to this post.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 20, 2011 23:43:36 GMT -5
Welcom to Penwith Genealogy cj7floyd. And I guess you would be our first member from Alaska! I am sure we will be able to help in some way but a little expansion on some of the information you have provided would be helpful. I will certainly take a look later tonight once I have completed some other tasks that require my attention. But I think your main problem appears to be the identity of the wife of John Oates. And that one will not be easy. I am guessing at the moment that this is part of the family from St Just so our first problem is that the earliest recorded marriage that I am aware of was in 1599. If son John was born/baptised in 1600 then we may never find a record of that marriage. That, of course, means that one source for the name of John's wife is gone. It is also a period when it was quite rare in many areas for the name of the mother to be recorded when a child was baptised. And this means that the best hope of finding out who she may have been would be in a Will - if one exists! We do have one or two members here who are much more familiar with this family than I so perhaps they might be able to shed some light on it for you. The later stuff is where I will start looking tonight. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2011 9:04:19 GMT -5
No, this just won't do! From Jane James d/o Anthony down to Prudence Goninnan daughter of Jane Oates there is a definite problem. This shows that Nicholas Oates would have been baptised when his mother was 17. Possible but ..... And then the information suggests that Nicholas was just 20 when his daughter Jane was baptised. Once again this is possible and not unusual but I get the sense that it is not correct. The really big problem is the next generation which shows that Jane would have been just 15 when Prudence Goninan was born!!! Not only that - but Henry Goninan and Jane Oats were married in 1742 and by your list here that would make Jane just 10 years old when she married Henry!!! I have alarm bells ringing in my head here so I will need to take a bit of time and see if I can get some of this sorted out. CT
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Post by white on Jan 21, 2011 9:22:00 GMT -5
Jane daughter of Nicholas was bapt.21may 1740 at Ludgvan so details definately wrong. Have offered to forward the Otts/Oats file to the new member.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2011 9:32:36 GMT -5
I could use a little more information here please. When and where did Mary Blight marry Mr Floyd and what was his first name? Where was Richard Floyd born/baptised in 1813 and where did he die? When and where did he marry and where was son Thomas born? Without this information I am getting nowhere. In fact I am unable to find any of these Floyds at all. CT
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Post by davidkingmartin on Jan 21, 2011 9:46:12 GMT -5
Hello,cj7ffloyd, I have on my database a John Oats 1553-1610, Cornwall (no specific location), described as an agent for the Carnsew family. Tin. Sources "RobOats" of Devon, and "White", from this website. I have not researched the info. There is a Hercules of 1610 ,son of John, followed by links with Penberthy family in Cornwall.
David
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2011 13:26:25 GMT -5
IT seems little wonder that I could find neither hide nor hair of Richard Floyd or his wife Mary Blight! Thanks to a Public Member Tree on Ancestry I now have information that suggests son Richard was born at Walkhampton, Devon in 1811. I often have lots to say about the quality of these Public Trees such as are found on Ancestry and I have made a point of saying that I use them to try and find something/anything that will help in a particular search. In this case the first thing I saw when I opened the tree was the Death Certificate of Richard Floyd dated 1851! Unfortunately the only details about Mary Blight in this tree are that she was born 1779 at St Agnes. And the marriage is supposed to have taken place 'somewhere' in Devon 24th June 1805. Two problems here are 1. the quality of information about Mary's origins and 2. no place of marriage and the marriage does not appear in IGI or that new and useless replacement. The one other piece of information about Mary is that she apparently died (buried?) at Buckland Monachorum in 1836. Reverting to Plan B - I took a look at another of these Ancestry Public Trees and this time we have some more interesting results. In this case we have the following information provided:- Mary Blight bp. 22nd February 1778 Ludgvan d/o George Blight and Prudence (nee Goninan) Died 27th March 1877 at Stoke Climsland age 99 According to this tree the marriage took place at St Agnes, Cornwall 24th June 1805. BUT - if that is true then Phillimore missed it! And if the marriage was at St Agnes then information about the children suggests they high-tailed it up into Devon very soon afterwards! Hmmm - it appears that I have neglected to mention that the supposed husband of Mary BLIGHT was RICHARD FLOYD who I now see is supposed to have been baptised at St Hilary 2nd June 1776 son of Peter Floyd and Patience (nee Gundry). I think I will take a look at one or two more of these trees to see how many more places the marriage could have taken place and to see if there is anything else I can find that will offer any useful clues. Aha - a third three has the marriage occurring at Walkhampton, Devon 24th June 1805. As if to prove that I have been right all along about these Online Family Trees there is the following to consider:- The information that gave the death/burial for Mary of 1877 age 99 at Stoke Climsland also showed that Mary was at Bodmin in the 1871 Census. Well the only Mary Floyd appearing at Bodmin in 1871 was a widow age 72 who had been born at St Ewe! So she is about 20 years young and born in the wrong damned place! No sign of Mary in 1841, 1851 or 1861. (At least not in Ancestry with their peculiar variations of what was on the written pages!) I am beginning to think the 1836 Death might have been the correct one but that still leaves multiple places for the marriage! CT
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Post by cj7floyd on Jan 21, 2011 22:51:54 GMT -5
I am floored by the amount of info you have been able to reply on in one short day! I am a beginner in this genealogy research so I obviously have a lot to learn. I will see what I can add as far as the info on Thomas and Richard go, as this is probably the most easily documented part of the line I originally posted.
I am very appreciative of your time and attention.
cj7.Floyd
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 21, 2011 23:53:56 GMT -5
Always happy to help. But we certainly need to tidy this lot up! It looks like Devon might be the place we need to be looking but having just had another look around it is not going to be easy. We need to ensure we have the correct Mary Blight and if she is indeed the Mary baptised at Ludgvan in 1778 then it will be a much easier task to trace her origins. Any information you can add will be helpful but it is best if you can keep it to 'verified facts'. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2011 0:14:41 GMT -5
UH-OH! It would appear that I have found another little spanner to throw into the works here! Having resigned myself (for the time being) to the fact that tracing the family of Richard and Mary Floyd in Devon is going to be a little difficult I have again turned my attention to the family of Mary Blight in Cornwall. At least I know that I am going to be able to find 'something' in Cornwall! I should point out that I already had the family of George and Prudence Blight in my database. George BLIGHT married Prudence GONINAN 1st October 1768 at Ludgvan Along with this I have a list of ten children (including Mary) between 1769 and 1793. The name of one of those children has long intrigued me - THOMAS COLMAN BLIGHT. Thanks to FamilySearch I have a copy of the marriage of George Blight and Prudence Gonian from the Ludgvan Parish Register. It is extremely interesting to note the names of the two witnesses to that marriage:- Peter Blight - I believe to be probably the father of George THOMAS COLMAN! I then decided to check IGI to see how many events there were in Cornwall for the name Thomas Colman. The result is - 33 only! Of those there is only ONE event prior to 1800 that occurs West of the Parish of St Minver. From the clues found in IGI I was able to check the Madron Parish Register and found:- 2nd February Madron Thomas COLEMAN, of S. Hilary, & PRUDENCE GONINAN, of Ludgvan, by Licence dated 23rd January 1748 This must now place some very serious doubt about the identity of the mother of Mary Blight. I think that the link to OATS might have just been severed! CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2011 0:38:45 GMT -5
Sorry if this is confusing - but I may just have re-established the OATS Link. But I think it is going to be a generation further back. A little work to do on the Blight and Goninan families after which I hope to be able to post some results showing just how it all fits together. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2011 1:49:45 GMT -5
The Update! The marriage of Thomas Colman and Prudence Goninan suggested to me the possibility that this may have been a second marriage for Prudence in which case she may have been previously married. From this it made sense that the Prudence who married George Blight may have been her daughter thus severing the tie with the Oats family. After some investigating of the relevant families I am now of the opinion that Prudence was certainly the daughter of Henry Goninan and Jane Oats. Henry Goninan was buried at Ludgvan in 1750 so obviously could not have witnessed the marriage of his daughter. This is where Thomas COLMAN entered the picture! Although I cannot find a baptism for her I believe that Prudence Goninan, wife of Thomas Colman, was a sister to Henry Goninan and this would explain why Thomas Colman was a witness at the marriage of George Blight and Prudence Gonian in 1768. From what I have been able to find it appears that Thomas Colman was buried at St Michael's Mount in 1811 at the age of 86 and that his wife Prudence was buried there in 1792. The next important piece of information I found was the burial of Jane Goninan (nee Oats) Jane Goninan age 66 was buried at Ludgvan 26th March 1789 This means that Jane OATS was born about 1722 and so was not the daughter of the John mentioned in the first posting of this thread. Preliminary searches also indicate that Jane was not baptised at Ludgvan so my next task is to try and find a matching record for her elsewhere. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2011 2:32:52 GMT -5
Time for our OATS/OATES experts I think. The only possible Jane I can find who is a close match for the wife of Henry Goninan is:- Jane Oates bp. 25th February 1720 St Just in Penwith daughter of Thomas Oates and Jane Rawling who married at St Just in 1709. CT
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Post by cj7floyd on Jan 22, 2011 6:05:43 GMT -5
I found this image of a death certificate for Richard Floyd (D: March 11, 1851) at Walkhampton. o.mfcreative.com/f1/file13/objects/b/2/c/db2c149a-205a-4c11-a5c5-eb288407081c-0.jpgThe informant is listed as William Floyd. This informant's name, in connection with that of deceased, would partly correlate to our family oral tradition regarding two immigrant brothers William and Thomas Floyd, and seems strengthened by the recurring use of the name Richard in the next two generations after Thomas. If the perpetual passing on of family names held true in the case of "Richard", would it be a far stretch to suggest that the Informant may have been the brother, father or grandfather of the deceased, and the relative for which Thomas' brother William was named? An 1851 Census document (same year as Richard's death certificate in Walkhampton) identifies an Elizabeth Floyd (B: about 1811 in Connon, Cornwall, England) living in Walkhampton, the widowed mother of Emlen, John, Charlott, Richard, Thomas and William. This document would also seem to support our family oral tradition. As the story was told by my GG Grandfather Richard (B:1871, Rockhampton, Australia), Thomas and his siblings lost their father at an early age and all of the boys had to work in the mines from age 7 to about 19, when Thomas left on his first trip to America. My GG Grandfather told of how during the early years following the Death of Thomas' father, his mother had to sell produce in the market to support the family. Elizabeth's maiden name was Morren according to a copy of Thomas' birth registration at Horrabridge Sampford Spiney. Do you know anything about where exactly Connon is, or anything relating to the Morren family? That's all I can get in tonight. Tomorrow I will see if I can find or clarify anything further concerning Richard's (1813-1851) parents, Richard Floyd(1776-1834) and Mary Blight. I hope these added details are helpful in starting to fill in some of the gaps. As for all the Ancestry.com info, it seems like so much wild conjecture and shifting sand. I admit to having put way too much stock in what Ancestry is selling with their service. It seems it could be a good beginning tool but is definitely not the end-all "best-practice" in which to really nail one's historical facts. Cheers! Cj7.floyd
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 22, 2011 7:07:37 GMT -5
Excellent - now that we have some information flowing we might get somewhere. Firstly yes - it is very possible that the informant at Richard's death was his brother and I will try to locate him in the Census to help verify the fact. Richard was age 39 which puts the birth around 1811 meaning he would have been the first child of the marriage given the date (at least) as found in Ancestry Family Trees is correct. I have located Elizabeth and the children in the 1851 Census and to me her place of birth looks like CONNOR. This 'could' be Connor Downs which is near Hayle but I cannot be certain. Another IGI reference indicates she was born at Crowan and that is something I will be able to check although most of the registers for that Parish prior to 1813 are in less than ordinary condition. You are quite right about Ancestry and if you peruse through this forum you will find many mentions of it by myself. But like anything else it is a sometimes useful tool which can lead to the correct answers. Now - if we can prove that Richard Floyd's mother was Mary Blight of Ludgvan then you and I have a very distant and roundabout connection. A distant Trewhella relative of mine married Sarah Blight at Ludgvan and she is descended from Peter Blight who was a brother to Mary's father George. CT
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