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Post by Tonkin on Jan 10, 2011 23:06:16 GMT -5
Thomas WALLIS and Ann TREMBATH were married in Sancreed in 1831. If I'm reading the records correctly they had fourteen children. What I'm trying to confirm is did they have two sets of twins with the same names. Cordelia bapt. 17 Nov 1833 Madron. James bapt. 17 Nov 1833 Madron. Cordelia bapt. 24 May 1834 Morvah. James bapt. 24 May 1834 Morvah. Looking at the parents details I'm certain both sets of twins belong to Thomas and Ann married in 1831, but the problem is I have not been able to find the deaths of the first set of twins. Am I reading the records correctly ... or was their another set of twins with the sames names belonging to another Thomas and Ann WALLIS. If my research is correct their first daughter Ann (bapt. 1832 Madron as Nanny) married Henry NANKERVIS (recorded as NEKERVIS) in St Just in 1852. They had the one son (Henry Thomas) in St Just in 1852 before they came out to Australia where they had another eight children between 1856 and 1868. Roy ... from down under.
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Post by Sarch on Jan 11, 2011 0:16:12 GMT -5
Tonkin A census search does not reveal another Cordelia Wallis aged abt 7 in 1841 - infact the only other is Cordelia Wallis aged 40 St Ives Was the 1833 baptism at home or private - as twins often arrive early and are smaller than normal babies and might not be expected to live? Went looking and found it, James and Cordelia were private baptisms in 1833 parents Thomas and Ann Wallis (Miner) of Bosullow1834 Baptism parents Thomas and Anne Wallis living at Gt Bosullow (Miner) I would say that they are probably the same children. Sarch
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Post by Tonkin on Jan 11, 2011 0:58:56 GMT -5
Thanks Sarch. Two baptisms crossed my mind. But then I thought ... why would they be baptised again six months later in a different church. If the first baptism was private at home I expect they wanted to give them a proper baptism in a church when they knew they were going to live. Very strange, but this seems to be the only explanation. OK - I will change my records and give them twelve children. Roy. ;D
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Post by Sarch on Jan 11, 2011 1:09:01 GMT -5
Hi Tonkin Who were the parents of Thomas Wallis? Sarch
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Post by Tonkin on Jan 11, 2011 1:30:10 GMT -5
Have not tried to establish the parents of Thomas as yet Sarch. My interest at the moment is finding out how many of his children came out to Australia. Still researching the family of their daughter Ann (or Nanny) in Victoria. Roy.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 11, 2011 2:52:01 GMT -5
Just so there can be no doubt. In the Morvah Parish Register the two baptisms appear on separate lines but the events are linked together on two sides. On the left of the page is the word Twins{ and under that can be (barely) read the words - M___: These are entered in Madron Register To the right of each name - is the abode "Great Bosullow in Madron" And in the column at the right for the signiature of the Officiating Minister:- "privately baptised by J Gregory Curate of Madron & received in to the Church by H Penneck Curate of Morvah" CT
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Post by Tonkin on Jan 11, 2011 4:25:35 GMT -5
Thanks CT and Sarch. I thought this was going to take some time to work out so thanks for making short work of it. You only need to ask the right people. And I now know for a fact that a child can be baptised a second time. Another myth busted. Thanks also for the mail drop CT. Roy ... from down under.
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Post by londoner on Jan 11, 2011 4:41:45 GMT -5
the view of other Wallis researchers seems to be that Thomas was the one bapt 1 Nov 1808 at St Just the son of Thomas and Sarah Noy who married 14 May 1808. Thomas Snr was probably the son of John Wallis & Jane Williams bapt 24 Jun 1781. they married 10 Dec 1773. John would have been the son of John & Elizabeth Penrose. and so on back through the St Just Wallis line.
None of this can be conclusively proved as far as I know but looks like the best match until someone comes up with something better
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 11, 2011 7:42:48 GMT -5
Londoner - as a matter of interest would the Sarah Noy have been baptised 15th January 1786 at St Just d/o Robert Noy and Elizabeth Bottrell? I am not quite sure why I have the family of Robert and Elizabeth Noy in the database but ............. And are there any quoted reasons for the conclusion regarding the identity of Thomas Wallis? CT
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Post by londoner on Jan 11, 2011 11:10:45 GMT -5
Yes that is the same Sarah. I haven't checked all this yet, am trying by process of elimination to sort the later St Just Wallis families but there are a lot of them - with the usual number of Johns Thomases and Roberts. the other possibilities are Thomas Williams Wallis base son of Margaret bapt. 29 Apr 1806 or Thomas Richards Wallis son of John & Elizabeth bapt 30 Oct 1809 - as I say I have still to eliminate them
apart from TW to Ann Trembath the other possible marriages are TW to Elizabeth Goninan in 1830 and TW to Mary Johns in 1829 - neither have a Sarah among their offspring as far as I can see at the moment
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Post by londoner on Jan 11, 2011 11:20:41 GMT -5
Ann Trembath appears to have been the daughter of James bapt at Madron in 1810 (IGI) This could well have been the same James with wife Cordelia at Zennor hence the names of the twins!
As for Thomas he is reputed to have died on 16 Apr 1859 but in places as far removed as Pendeen and Bendigo - there is certainly a burial at Pendeen of a TW age 50 - the Aussie records are over to you CT - but might confirm his parentage if correct
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Post by londoner on Jan 11, 2011 11:32:05 GMT -5
Have not tried to establish the parents of Thomas as yet Sarch. My interest at the moment is finding out how many of his children came out to Australia. Still researching the family of their daughter Ann (or Nanny) in Victoria. Roy. According to various trees on A* all but Thomas 1837 and Catherine 1848 (and or 1849) are accounted for in Australia
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Post by tonymitch on Jan 11, 2011 12:38:08 GMT -5
Roy...from down under. No, it's not another myth busted. Theologically, Canon Law(ly) and any other 'ly' you like to mention.....Baptism can only be performed once. Once you are Baptised, that is, made a Christian, you cannot be made a Christian again. You are a Christian and that's that. It's like birth...once you are born you cannot be born a second time, (other than spiritually). You will notice that the twins were Baptised privately in Madron. They were then "recieved into the Church". That is not Baptised. Baptism had already taken place. Their names were listed in the Baptism Register, only God and Rev H Penneck know why. BTW, on another tack. The dead, however young, cannot be baptised. The practice of proxy Baptism was condemned by the Roman Church, I think at the Council of Trent, and I am almost certain that it was condemned during the first couple of centuries after Christ. I am here putting forward what I think are the mainstream Christian Doctrines. Individual clerics may in the past have done as they wished, but I'm reasonably confident that my views are standard Christian Doctrine. What's this got to do with genealogy? Well, the Mormons believe in proxy baptism. The Catholics regard it as heresy. I understand that in the past some Catholic Bishops have refused to allow the Mormons (LDS Society) access to their baptism records to prevent them from attempting proxy baptism. This means that genealogist do not have access to these baptism records.
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Post by Sarch on Jan 11, 2011 13:27:15 GMT -5
Hi Londoner Could Thomas Wallis married to Ann Trembath be the son of Francis Wallis and Alice Nicholas who married 12 Jul 1794 in Sennen - Groom's residence St Leven. I have a son Thomas Wallis to Francis and Alice baptised 1809 in Sennen. Aprox birth date for Thomas is from 1841 Census There is a sister named Sarah in this family Sarah Wallis living with father Francis and mother Alice in 1841 Census - living at Treeve, Sennen (Sarah is transcribed as Saraha aged 35) Sarah Wallis was baptised 1806 in Sennen These are the children that I have found of Francis Wallis and Alice Nicholas 1796 Alice WALLIS 1798 Phyllis WALLIS 1800 Francis WALLIS 1806 Sarah WALLIS 1809 Thomas WALLIS 1811 Grace WALLIS 1814 Ann WALLIS Sarch
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Post by Tonkin on Jan 11, 2011 14:37:28 GMT -5
Good morning everyone. I see you have all been busy while I have been sleeping and trying to shake this flu. Sorry Tony, I thought they were baptised twice. Not sure without a death certificate but I'm sure Thomas WALLIS died 1882 in Eaglehawk, Victoria, aged 72 years. His parents were not recorded. Ann WALLIS died 1888 in Daylesford, Victoria, aged 75 years. Her parents are recorded as James TREMBATH and Cardelia JAMES. I have looked for Ann's baptism (OPC) but did not find it. Safe to say her parents were James TREMBATH and Cordelia JAMES married 1808 in Madron. Ann WALLIS arrived in Victoria on the White Star in October 1866 with three of her children. Recorded as: Ann WALLIS - aged 53 years. John WALLIS - aged 24 years. Catherine WALLIS - aged 15 years. (now accounted for Londoner). Robert WALLIS - aged 13 years. I'm still looking for the arrival date of Thomas. I expect he came out ahead of the family to find a suitable place to live, and possible brought a few more of his children with him. Further research will tell. Hope these few details will help anyone else researching the family. Roy ... from down under.
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