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Post by calswimmer on Apr 22, 2007 11:42:51 GMT -5
???I am pretty sure, but not entirely sure, that Stephen Penberthy m. to Elizabeth Cottay in 1829, is my ancestor. As far as I can tell, they weren't in Phillack until the 1830's. They were married in St. Austell. There seem to be very few Cottay (Cotty, Cottier) families so I'm wondering if anyone has heard of them at all.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 22, 2007 14:12:10 GMT -5
Not sure if this will help - but it does look to be some sort of match. If you could supply some more information on the marriage and the names (and DOB) of known children it would help but I have found something interesting. Firstly - ARE you sure of Elizabeth's surname?? Rather than COTTAY (sic.) - could the surname have possibly been NORTHEY? (I know that is a name from around the St Austell/St Blazey area as I have a Trewhella married to a Jane Northey). What I have found is the following:- 1851 Census for Phillack - Village of Vengonleague Peter NORTHEY, age 45, head, copper miiner, bn. Phillack Elizabeth NORTHEY, age 46, wife, bn. Phillack - several children all bn. Phillack - John PENBERTHY, age 22, NEPHEW, Iron Founder, bn. Phillack Stephen PENBERTHY, age 20, NEPHEW, Boiler Maker, bn. Phillack William PENBERTHY, age 18, NEPHEW, Ropemaker, bn. Phillack Richard PENBERTHY, age 13, NEPHEW, Iron Founder App., bn. Phillack From the Phillack Online Parish Register (Baptisms):- 8th February 1829 - John Penberthy s/o Stephen and Elizabeth of Vengonlege 28th November 1830 Stephen Penberthy s/o Stephen and Elizabeth of Vengonlege 29th July 1832 William Penberthy s/o Stephen and Elizabeth of Ventonlege 29th October 1837 Richard Penberthy s/o Stephen and Elizabeth of Ventonlege Next interesting point is from Phillack Marriages:- 6th March 1831 - Peter Northey m. Elizabeth Penberthy That seems to take the 'sting' out of my first theory! But it does start to look like Elizabeth was the sister of Stephen Penberthy. BIG question is - where was Stephen and his wife in 1851. Were they both deceased? Please post some further information about this family and I will see where I can help you. Place and date of Marriage for Stephen and Elizabeth (with any relevant details) would be a great start. In fact, anything you know about the family around this time might help. Best I can do for now.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 22, 2007 14:51:27 GMT -5
Ok--well what's pretty neat is you found my subsequent ancestors, and I do know something about them. Yes, Stephen Penberthy is sister to Elizabeth Penberthy who married Peter Northey. I'm pretty sure that Stephen senior died in 1847 along with several of the children in some sort of epidemic that occured in the area at that time. I have written down that his wife, the unknown Elizabeth, died 1849--quite possible. I read about an epidemic and found death dates that correspond to my ancestors. So the children moved in with their aunt and her husband, the Northeys. I do find an Elizabeth Penberthy, b. St. Austell, living with daughter Hannah Jane in the 1861 census. So maybe it is not the Elizabeth I am looking for. She's the only Elizabeth I found so far who would have married a Stephen P. at the right time. Marriage date for Stephen and Elizabeth is 9 Feb. 1828, St. Austell. Witnesses were John Cole and John Julyan.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 22, 2007 17:02:03 GMT -5
Thankyou for that - I now need to try to get access to St Austell Registers to see what else I can find out. But - there is more! I just did a search of the 1841 Census and found the following family at Phillack:- Enumerated at Ventonleague Stephen Penberthy, age 35, Iron Founder Elizabeth Penberthy, age 35 John Penberthy, age 12 Stephen Penberthy, age 10 William Penberthy, age 8 Elizabeth Penberthy, age 6 Richard Penberthy, age 3 Caroline Penberthy, age 3 months Undoubtedly the same family. As for Phillack Burials:- Stephen Penberthy, age 44, of Ventonlege - 7th March 1847 Elizh Penberthy, age 45, of Ventonlege - 6th August 1849 Elizh Penberthy, age 14, of Ventonlege - 12th August 1849 1849 is the current available limit of Burial information that I have for Phillack but there are quite a number of Penberthy people baptised and buried up until this time who were listed as 'of Ventonlege' so I would suggest a very likely family group being involved. Let's keep digging and see what more we can find out.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 22, 2007 19:57:00 GMT -5
Yes, that is the family, and I have guessed based on internet research that the children did the following--William P. married Grace Thomas in 1859, John P. married Ann ? and had John, Ben, Elizabeth, Louisa, Catherine, Eliza, Stephen, Richard P. married Margaret and had Mary, Margaret, and Stephen Henry, and about my own Stephen Penberthy, I know for sure that he married Mary Jane Thomas in 1851 and had Mary Elizabeth, Stephen (died young) , Catherine, and Stephen again. Then Mary Jane died 1862. One of her sons ended up in Australia, apparently, but I have been totally unable to confirm that. Stephen remarried to Elizabeth Miners.
Anyway, the question is, if Elizabeth died in 1849, she probably wasn't Elizabeth Cottay, so who was she? Stephen and Elizabeth must have come from somewhere else as I see no marriage record for them in Phillack. I think my Penberthys were connected to Isaac Penberthy, but so far I see no family connection. He and his family mined in South America. Where would I look for more information on marriages?
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Post by Zenobia on Apr 22, 2007 20:17:13 GMT -5
???I am pretty sure, but not entirely sure, that Stephen Penberthy m. to Elizabeth Cottay in 1829, is my ancestor. As far as I can tell, they weren't in Phillack until the 1830's. They were married in St. Austell. There seem to be very few Cottay (Cotty, Cottier) families so I'm wondering if anyone has heard of them at all. Now Cotty is a name I have not run across, but I am wondering how common was the name Stephen among the Penberthys? I have a Penberthy dead-end that may connect to one or more of the Lelant Stephen Penberthys.
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Post by Zenobia on Apr 22, 2007 20:27:39 GMT -5
You said they were married in St. Austell, and I do see a listing for them on the IGI. If you order the Parish Register for St. Austell it should give her father's name and occupation.
There is an Elizabeth Cottey chr. 27 Feb 1803 at Redruth to a James and Elizabeth. This one looks promising.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 23, 2007 11:39:59 GMT -5
I just spent nearly two hours working on this and reckon that I came up with some very interesting and conclusive answers for you. HOWEVER - as I was nearing the end of my 'missive' I managed to hit the wrong combination of keys (and I am a touch typist who usually does not need to look at the keyboard) - and I LOST THE WHOLE ........ LOT! So I am going to have to start again! I will not try to do the whole lot again tonight as I have other things to check but will give a very brief outline. The St Austell Marriage is very likely the one you are after. The St Austell records I have show no other record of a Penberthy in the period of about 1800-1849. Zenobia's reference to Elizabeth Cottey bp. Redruth in 1803 is worth pursuing. I believe Stephen and sister Elizabeth were children of Stephen PENBERTHY and Dorcas PENGLASE who married at Phillack 26th September 1801. (Stephen was 'of LELANT') The Elizabeth Penberthy at St Austell in 1861 was mother of Hannah Jane who was married to a Bennett and had a daughter Elizabeth A Bennett, then aged 2. Also in this household was John Penberthy, aged 22, who was Hannah's brother. As he would have been born about 1838/9 it means that he and his mother are not the ones you are looking for. As for the Penberthy children of Stephen and Elizabeth. I have not yet found the marriage of William to Grace Thomas. But I did find a marriage at Phillack for John - he married JANE EDWARDS at Phillack in 1851 and it appears she died shortly afterwards. (John was son of Stephen Penberthy, deceased.) In 1852 John then married ANN Mills at Phillack and this will be the origin of the children you have listed. Richard married Margaret Rowe in 1856 at Phillack. And for my cousin 'Zenobia' - please take note of the LELANT connection with Stephen!! I will try and totally reconstruct my original note in the next couple of days. Just now I am totally & by my stupid typographical error! Anyway, there is something to work with and I will get back onto it.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 23, 2007 16:14:53 GMT -5
Well, thanks for all this research. I'm still puzzled because I think I decided at one point that Dorcas and Stephen aren't right for parents--but I will check back in my notes to see why I that would be--timewise, placewise, of course, they fit. Well, If the Cottay family isn't involved there is no point pursuing that angle. Especially hours of research! I think you're right that they aren't connected to my set of Penberthys, especially with the birthdate of a child before their marriage. It is really nice to have your feedback and I am interested in working a little harder on the origin of my Penberthys.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 23, 2007 16:31:45 GMT -5
Do not give up here! It may be that I am missing something from one or more of your earlier notes - but from what I have gleaned from them we 'should be' on the right track. You say that the name 'Stephen' is definitely in your family so that is an interesting pointer. The family at St Austell 'could' be linked but, if so, it would appear the marriage occurred elsewhere as I have so far found no evidence in the information I have of Penberthy people being married or baptised at St Austell. So there is much more to do on this - do not despair! The fact that Stephen is involved is an initial indication that he is probably from further West than St Austell so I will look into it a little further. I will need to carefully re-read all of your notes as I go along. (Good thing I have been watching episodes (and movies) of Sherlock Holmes over the last couple of nights! ) I will try and get another look at some of this after I have finished work and had some sleep and hope to get back to you within the next 24 hours.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 24, 2007 16:27:10 GMT -5
I just checked what I have noted on Penberthys and I see that Stephen born in about 1805 matches pretty well with a Stephen b. to Dorcas and Stephen who apparently, from what I have noted, died in 1847--really a very good match. So perhaps those are indeed the parents of Stephen who married Elizabeth whose last name is still unknown. There is another family of Stephen Penberthys in the same area and they also passed the name down so research can be confusing. Fortunately that other family adds middle names which helps distinguish them from my family. I need a little time to catch up on all this, so please don't hurry! Thanks for working with me on it.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 24, 2007 18:27:39 GMT -5
Thanks for mentioning Lelant. Now I see another connection to Lelant. My Stephen Penberthy family is supposed to be related to Isaac Penberthy--either the one b. 1796 and d. 1849, or his son, and the former one is buried in Lelant. He married Sarah Bohenna. Isaac the elder's father is also Isaac, married to Elizabeth Harry, and his father in turn is also Isaac, married to Dorcas Potter in Lelant Parish Church in 1761.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 25, 2007 9:58:49 GMT -5
I reckon you might be on the right track here, even though I just read your note and have not thoroughly checked things other than my recent notes. I have a few other things to work on tonight but will try to get back to this thread before I finish up. Will also TRY to reconstruct my original long note of the other night so that you can see the progress I was making.
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Post by calswimmer on Apr 26, 2007 16:31:54 GMT -5
Well, I have now proven to myself that Elizabeth of St. Austell is not related to the Stepen Penberthy family of Phillack. I found Elizabeth and her children (husband apparently dead) in the 1841 and 1851 censuses, still in St. Austell at the Old Turnpike. So that leaves the last name of the Elizabeth who married Stephen open for speculation.
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Post by Zenobia on Apr 26, 2007 18:14:15 GMT -5
I would look for the marriage of Stephen and Elizabeth as possibly being at Lelant then. I know from experience that not all marriages in the PR make it into the IGI. I found many Lelant ones in the 1800s that were skipped in the IGI...
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