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Post by myghaelangof on Jan 10, 2010 15:15:35 GMT -5
I have come up against one of those brick walls in researching my above forebears and wonder if anyone out there has any ideas Prior to 1631 in St Just there are other BOSVARGUS and GLANDFIELD/GRENFIELD/GRENFELL? entries but nothing as yet to tie in with Jane and Hercules. If they were local they would have been born prior to the existing register of baptisms (1612+). I have read that the BOSVARGUS name was assumed by John, the brother of Bennet LATHON/LETHAN vicar of St Just from 1557-1582. Therefore I assumed this was John LATHON. However on the 1597 subsidy roll of St Just is the following entry: John THOMAS als BOSVARGUS. The Easter Books of 1588-1596 have a note (added at an unknown date) stating John LATHON assumed the BOSVARGUS name. So, did Bennet the vicar assume the LATHON surname and he was originally THOMAS? John LATHON/BOSVARGUS had 4 known children named in a will: John (died 1608 4 children named in his will - no Jane), William (poss married Tamsin CARDEW 1601 & had 4 children names unknown - see will of Jone BOSVARGUS 1611), Thomas (poss married twice), and Jane (married an EVA). Was Jane BOSVARGUS a child of William or Thomas? Any help much appreciated. Regards Mike
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Post by brianterry141 on May 31, 2010 1:25:26 GMT -5
I am also at the same brick wall. I dn't think Iam much help but I have been rooting around. Hercules is my 9th great grandfather but I have been unable to prove his father. I suspect him to be John married to a Mary Wilmot. In regard to his wife Jane Busvargus. In the visitation of Cornwall 1620 there is a family tree for the Busvargus of St Just.There is no mention of Jane. The visitation document can be downloaded from www.uk-genealogy.org.ukI have been trying to find another Busvargus family. In 1616 a Thomas Busvargus marrried Elizabeth Trevethan in St Just (source M020312)but the dates would not allow them to be Jane's Parents. There is also a Jane borne about 1620 who married a Richard Edwards in 28 Jan 1639 at St Just. I cannot find any earlier marriage apart from John marrying Jenet Spernan in Apr 1563 whom I have assumed to be the earliest Busvargus named in the visitation. I have to say that when I discovered Hercules and his marriage I thought that Busvargus would be a rare surname. Irritated when the converse appears to be true.
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Post by johntanner on May 31, 2010 4:12:53 GMT -5
Brianterry
I believe that the parents of Hercules are John Grenfell and Margaret Udye. This couple are named in the 1619/20 will of her father Cheston Udye.
This John Grenfell appears to have started life as John Otes but at some stage adopted his mother's maiden name Grenfell. I base this on research I did 8-9 years ago into the early Grenfells, but as far as I am aware has not been disproved since then.
I will email a copy of what I wrote then, slightly amended later to include the Udye will and other small changes, to anyone interested.
Sorry I cannot help with Busvargus.
John Tanner
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 29, 2010 18:04:58 GMT -5
Thanks Brian and John for your responses. Apologies for not following up sooner but I've been otherwise engaged all summer and only now getting back to the history. Certainly around the time in question names were very fluidic, for example John MARTIN was the son of Martin TRAHARE. The premise that Hercules GRENFELL is the son of John OTES is quite plausible and worthy of research. What information did you use to make this conclusion John? Busvargus as a place is named on John NORDEN's map of 1607, and whilst the surname was already in use, any number of families could have assumed it as well. As for Jane's parentage we have possible fathers in William, Thomas or John, and probably one or two more to creep out the woodwork. Lets see what we can turn up
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Post by johntanner on Oct 30, 2010 6:48:46 GMT -5
myghaelangof
I will email you a copy of what I wrote about 10 years ago - too long to post here.
John
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Post by davidkingmartin on Oct 30, 2010 9:12:30 GMT -5
Myghealangof: You mention "John Martin,son of...".Which one? I have several on my Tree,1500s/1600s, with detailed info.difficult to come by and to verify. David.
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 30, 2010 12:10:24 GMT -5
John, many thanks for the info you emailed. Still digesting it all. David, The entry came from the printed version of the St Just Easter Book. From memory it was a note by the transcriber Canon Taylor. I dont have any other info to add, except that I noted it as an example of the way surnames were changing, and because I have Trahare family in St Just from the 1700's. It may only have been the transcribers supposition, or he may have had more evidence of the facts. Backing up the assumption are the entry of Martin TREHARE on the 1594 subsidy roll, and John MARTEN on the 1597 listing. Happy hunting, Mike.
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 30, 2010 18:44:05 GMT -5
I am leaning towards Jane BOSVARGUS being the daughter of William, son of Jone. Two wills help tie the Busvargus family together. Firstly, that of John BUSVARGUS, who died 1st May 1607, being buried 2 days later. His will names his mother Jone, wife Marie, 3 daughters Allce, Elizabeth and Tamsyn, plus son John. Also brothers William and Thomas, sister Jane EVA, and godsons Edward B. and John B. In 1611 his widow Marie remarried to John NOYE gent of Buryan. Jone BUSVARGUS's will of 1613 was witnessed by John NOYE, Ales B., Thomas B. and W. DRAKE. She names her 'cousins' John B. deceased with 4 children, William B. with 4 children, and her executor and cousin Thomas B. (no children mentioned). Is it possible that 'cousins' actually refers to her sons, maybe a different context of cousin 400 years ago, and maybe reflecting she was no longer a Busvargus? If so, then all the facts from available births, marriages, burials, and wills, fit together neatly ;D (too neatly?) Which leaves us with the probability that William's 4 children included the 2 godsons of John, namely Edward and John, along with the Jane we are looking for born circa 1601-1613 I still have to deal with the contradictory evidence of the Easter books, ie John LETHAN, brother to Bennet Lethan, assumed the Busvargus name; and the 1597 subsidy roll naming John THOMAS als BUSVARGUS I'd like to find some corroborating evidence, maybe mentions in the wills of EVA or NOYE? Interested in anyone's thoughts on this theory. Thanks Mike
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 30, 2010 23:18:07 GMT -5
Mike - I am not comfortable with that idea about the sons being named as 'cousins'. Generally speaking I have found the term 'cousin' to be used for any relative who is not directly and immediately connected. By 'directly and immediately' I mean - parent, child or sibling. If Jone were the widow of John then I would be looking at the possibility that she was his second wife in which case John's children might be called 'cousins'. A second possibility is that Jone the Testator was a widowed aunt. Hasn't solved the problem but there is certainly more to think about. CT
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 31, 2010 5:52:56 GMT -5
CT thanks for your input. I cant disagree with you there. It was getting late when I was formulating the idea, and came to my conclusion in the absence of any other Busvargus's from St Just area I'm not comfy with 'cousin' when we are dealing with sons, unless this in some way reflected on Marie, their mother, remarrying in 1611 and Jone didnt see them as being direct family anymore If Jone was an aunt of John (d.1607), implying the lads were great nephews, then John had a mother named Jone, and an aunt named Jone. Quite feasible, and Jone (d 1613) had no living descendants. However we dont find a burial or marriage in the patchy St Just records for another Jone Further investigation needed
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 31, 2010 6:56:38 GMT -5
Idea. Does anyone have access to a copy of the marriage register for St Just? I'm thinking Tamsen CARDEW who married William BUSVARGUS in 1601 may have actually been CARNSEW. If so then the family had close links to the OATS/GRENFELL and the marriage of Jane B. to Hercules G. in 1631 would be a natural progression... Thanks to John for the correspondence between OTES and CARNSEWE, although I have seen it previously, courtesy of Rob Oats, the fact they are on my desk right now was useful The only other Busvargus families I am coming across in this early period, are: John, married Agnes Hill circa 1617 Wendron, William, married Sattis Sargent 1629 Bideford, Devon. There is also a William, ordained at Exeter in 1628.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2010 7:03:34 GMT -5
I haven't seen the marriage register but from the source of the
CFHS they have it as William Busvargus married Tamsen Cardew
10.2.1601/02 St Just.
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 31, 2010 7:19:44 GMT -5
Thanks Lamorna
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2010 7:29:36 GMT -5
I'm sure I'm repeating info you already have but I've just had a look for early Busvargus.
Joan Busvargus baptised 3.12.1620 Wendron father John Busvargus.
John Bosvargus baptised 16.12.1621 Wendron father John Bosvargus.
Francis Bosvargus baptised 18.4.1624 Wendron father John Bosvargus.
Thomas Bosvargus baptised 28.8.1625 Wendron father Johnis Bosvargus.
Alice Bosvargus baptised 17.5.1627 Wendron father John Bosvargus.
Mary Busvargus baptised 20.9.1629 Wendron father John Busvargus.
Ann Bosvargus baptised 1.12.1633 Wendron father John Bosvargus.
John Noye married Mary Busvargus 4.6.1611 St Just in Penwith
Hercules Glanfield married Jane Busvargus 15.1.1631/32 St J in P.
Richards Edwards married Jane Busvargus 28.1.1639/40 St J in P.
Thomas Bosvargus married Elizabeth Trevethan in June 1616 St J in P.
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Post by myghaelangof on Oct 31, 2010 10:00:34 GMT -5
Thanks again Lamorna. For the moment I'm assuming all the Bosvargus's descend from either John LETHAN or John THOMAS (see above). I'm now looking at the CARDEW family hoping for some clues :-)
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