Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe

[cornishmaid]

Does anyone have any information on the Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe that married William John Oates Helston district March 1905 quarter please Am trying to help someone out with this one.

Children of William and Elizabeth are:
Sidney 1907 (Reg'd Penzance)
Garfield 1910 (Regd Penzance)
Beatrice Z 1912 (Regd Penzance)
Christopher Stuart 1912 (Regd Redruth)

Trying to find out who William John Oates parents are... have found a lot at St Keverne, but there seems to be a missing link somewhere, and something doesn't quite fit.

Would appreciate any ideas

[trencrom]

Is he in the 1901 census?

[londoner]

I think I have found you a likely candidate but you would need to check the marriage of William John for his father's name to be sure. I also found a couple of red herrings at Chacewater and the St Keverne one seemed a bit too old.

How about: William John b 1863 son of John & Mary Ann of Gunwalloe (on 1871 Census) by 1881 John is dead, in 1901 William J and brother Alfred S(Stanley b 1876) are still unmarried.
John Oates m. Mary Ann Lukies (father Nicholas) 1861 Helston
John was baptised 1837 Gunwalloe, son of John & Mary Ann(nee Lane) who m 1836
Gunwalloe

I expect our Trewhella expert can confirm that Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe was the daughter of Alexander Stewart Rowe(1849 Marazion) and Elizabeth Sally Trewhella (aka Sarah daughter of John Trewhella(c1801) of Gwinear see 1881 census)) 1840 Crowan. m 1871 Helston
Alexander was the son of Benjamin Rowe(1813 Devon) and Rhoda Stewart (1828 St Mawes) m 1846 Penzance.(see 1851 & 61 censuses)
Rhoda was the child of Alexander Stewart mariner of Scotland and Fanny (1841 census)
Hope this helps - all info found online so you can spend hapless hours checking at Redruth!

[Cornish Terrier]

M'darlin - you have come to the right place.

William John Oates, farmer, of Roswick, St Keverne son of Christopher Oates married Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe 16th February 1905 Helston UMFC. (You will find the entry in the Helston UMFC Registers - this being a Methodist Circuit)

Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe was born about 1872 (not found her baptism as yet) in Crowan - daughter of Alexander Stuart Rowe and Elizabeth Sally (nee TREWHELA).

I can supply further information on Elizabeth Sally Trewhela if, and when, required - although there may be a delay due to my ongoing move and settlement.

Also - I had not pursued this family so was not aware of the children you have listed. (Thank you for that)

Now, here is what I have found about William John Oates (before I go and pack more boxes and get them moved).

1861 Census - Roswick, St Keverne

Christopher Oates, head, mar, 52, farmer of 65 acres, St Keverne
Phillippa do., wife, mar, 46, St Keverne
Grace E do., daur, unm, 22, farmer's daur., St Keverne
Phillippa do., daur, unm, 17, farmer's daur., St Keverne
James do., son, unm, 15, farmer's son, St Keverne
Ursula J do., daur, 11, scholar, St Keverne
William J do., son, 7, scholar, St Keverne
Elizabeth Ellen do., daur, 6, scholar, St Keverne
Christopher do., son, 4, scholar, St Keverne
William Williams, nephew, unm., 30, carter, St Keverne
William Oates, nephew, unm., 17, carter, St Keverne

1871 Census - Roswick, St Keverne

Christopher Oates, head, mar, 64, farmer of 60 acres, St Keverne
Phillippa do., wife, mar, 56, St Keverne
Ursula J do., daur, unm, 21, St Keverne
William J do., son, unm, 17, St Keverne

I can pursue other Census records later but it certainly appears this is your man.

It appears Christopher and Phillippa were not married in St Keverne - however I have found the following baptisms at St Keverne:-

Christopher Oats bp. 12th October 1806 s/o William and Millicent

24th December 1837 Grace Exelby d/o Christopher & Phillippa Oates of Traboe, Publican
7th July 1839 Milicent d/o Christopher & Phillippa Oates of Traboe, Innkeeper
6th June 1841 Ann d/o Christopher & Phillippa Oates of Traboe, Innkeeper
19th November 1843 Phillippa d/o Christopher & Phillipa Oates of Traboe, Innkeeper
13th July 1845 James s/o Christopher & Thomasine Oates of Traboe, Publican
31st July 1848 Ursula d/o Christopher & Phillippa Oats of Roswick, farmer (Received into Church 28th August by J Lane)

10th July 1853 William John s/o Christopher & Phillippa Oates of Roswick, farmer (Private Baptism)
8th April 1855 Elizabeth Ellen d/o Christopher & Phillippa Oates of Rosewick, farmer

Have not looked at burials yet but did notice a marriage for Grace Exelby Oates in 1863 (but only noticed it in passing).

Hope this is of some help and I will continue with it further once I am all set up again.

Ian

[londoner]

OK so I got the wrong William John - still it was fun searching and I did get Elizabeth right!

[londoner]

Cornwall OPC database has Christopher Oates m Phillipa Exelby 13 Feb 1837 at St Kevern - witnesses John Oats and John Exelby

[cornishmaid]

Thank you all so much for all this information! ;D I couldn't find that marriage of William J Oates and Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe anywhere, so Will J to Christopher Oates with any degree of certainty.

Thanks again to you all for your help, you are all stars

[Cornish Terrier]

Cornwall OPC database has Christopher Oates m Phillipa Exelby 13 Feb 1837 at St Kevern - witnesses John Oats and John Exelby

I have downloaded copies of the St Keverne OPC records (among others) and did not find that one.

Mind you - it might have been the search criteria I used 'oat'.

Oops - Just found the marriage - silly me did not look at the entries prior to the latter half of 1837.

Main reason for this was that the information I already had suggested a marriage a bit later than this so I must apologise.

Well done 'londoner'.

Alexander was the son of Benjamin Rowe(1813 Devon) and Rhoda Stewart (1828 St Mawes) m 1846 Penzance.(see 1851 & 61 censuses)
Rhoda was the child of Alexander Stewart mariner of Scotland and Fanny (1841 census)

And here is some more information I had not chased down so - thank you again 'londoner'. ;D

Thank you all so much for all this information! I couldn't find that marriage of William J Oates and Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe anywhere, so Will J to Christopher Oates with any degree of certainty.

The reason is that it was in a 'non-comformist' register which may not yet have been transcribed.

I found the entry at the CRO in 1994 when I went through every Register for every Parish that was available for where I knew the Trewhella (var.) were, or had been.

BTW - I cannot, as yet, explain the baptismal entry which states James was son of Christopher and THOMASINE.

But he appears in the Census as son of Christopher and Phillippa and all children before and after were baptised to Phillippa.

Perhaps the name Thomasine might be a clue to other parts of the family and it is a possibility that this was the name of Phillippa's mother.

And there is no need to label me a star. - I have mentioned before that I do this because I love it and I am happy to help where I can.

Lot's of experience, let downs, correcting misinformation and reading detective novels might have helped a little bit. ;D

Well, one load of stuff moved tonight (instead of the three that I had hoped) and I am too tired now to do any more.

With only four days to go I am going to be hard-pushed to do things but will just have to do it.

Work has not helped with the Pub being extremely busy the last few nights so I am almost completely worn out.

Also - the Fire Season is on and we are expecting 39 degrees Celsius today.

I don't mind the heat but would find it preferable if it did not occur while I was trying to move records, books and computer equipment.

Am going to relax for a short while and then get to bed for a few hours I think.

Keep me posted on updates with the above family and I will do what I can to help as soon as I can.

Ian

[graememoad]

I have the William John Oates son of Chistopher and Philppa nee Exelby (baptized 10 Jul 1853).

This William John and Elizabeth Rowe had a son Christopher baptized St Keverne 19 Jun 1912
(see St Keverne site)

homepage.mac.com/graememoad/Family2/PS04/PS04_001.HTM

I'm not convinced this is the same William John Elizabeth Rowe as yours (but it may be).

[Cornish Terrier]

That would be Christopher Stuart as mentioned in an earlier posting on this thread.
So I think you can be convinced you have the right William and Elizabeth.

[zibetha]

QUOTE: "Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe was born about 1872 (not found her baptism as yet) in Crowan - daughter of Alexander Stuart Rowe and Elizabeth Sally (nee TREWHELA).

I can supply further information on Elizabeth Sally Trewhela if, and when, required - although there may be a delay due to my ongoing move and settlement. "

I hope so, CT! I have been puzzling over this part of the family this week.

There is a baptism on Family Search films for Elizabeth Trewhella Rowe on Aug 11 1872. She also had a sister named Sarah. I am most interested in their brother, Alexander Stuart Rowe (1878) as he married Elizabeth Williams Harvey. I have her on my tree as the daughter of my great-great-grandfather Edward Harvey's youngest brother, Thomas Hocken Harvey and his wife, Jane Williams. That would make the couple 3rd cousins with Thomas Trewhela and Martha Blewett as their common ancestors.

Back to the subject of their mother: I am not sure there officially was an "Elizabeth Sally" Trewhella? From what I've found, John and Sally (Lukey) Trewhela's 2nd daughter "Sarah" Trewhela was born in 1838 and died in 1839. Next was daughter no.3 who is the one who has me puzzled: baptized in 1839 was "Sally Elizabeth" per the BMD or "Sally" in the OPC database.

In 1841, 1851 and 1861 she is "Sally" and in 1871, "Sarah" resides with her widowed father, John.

Sarah/Sally had a sister, Elizabeth, born in 1843. They appear together in the 1851 and 1861 censuses, then no more Elizabeth. I think she was the Elizabeth Trewhela who married John Nankervis in 1863. They had a son, John Trewhela Nankervis also in 1863 (he died in Montana in 1929), and Elizabeth Nankervis was buried at Crowan in 1865. John Nankervis then married Martha Frances Richards, and two of their children have "Trewhella" as middle names (the number of "l's" varies.)

It looks like Sarah/Sally starts to appear as "Elizabeth Sally" after her sister's death. "Elizabeth Sally" married Alexander Stewart Rowe a few months after the 1871 census. In 1881 and 1891 she was "Sarah Rowe" in 1901 "Elizabeth S." and in 1911, "Elizabeth Sally." After her death in 1911, her estate was probated in January of 1913 as "Elizabeth Sarah Rowe." Her age wobbles a bit, but she was enough older than her husband to be the better match for his spouse than Elizabeth.

Are you aware of a baptism record for an "Elizabeth Sally"? Are we/me dealing with a Sally Elizabeth AND an Elizabeth Sally or one woman?

Thanks,

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Zib - simply a case of not knowing which name to use on any given day I think! Not unusual for a person to be registered at birth with one name (or combination of names) and be baptized differently.
In this case we have a birth registered as Sally Elizabeth but the child baptized as Sally yet known at different times as Sally, Sarah, Sally Elizabeth, Elizabeth Sally etc. But there was just the one girl (other than the previously deceased sister Sally) and she went on to marry Alexander Stuart Rowe.

And you are correct that younger sister Elizabeth married John Nankervis.

CT

[zibetha]

Thanks for the clarification, CT. Maybe she started using her middle name in honor of her sister.

Amongst the members of my family are some pairs of brothers with "flip-flopped" names (that's the fancy genealogy term, right? ) including Joseph Henry and Henry Joseph as well as William Harvey and Harvey William, so I didn't immediately discount that possibility when it came to Sally/Elizabeth.

Zib

[Cornish Terrier]

And it is not so easy finding members of this Trewhela family in the Crowan registers either - even with the aid of transcriptions. The handwriting is, I think, just about the most atrocious I have ever seen in what is a reasonably 'modern' Parish Register!!!

CT

[zibetha]

After I posted, I updated my worksheet and realized that Martha Frances Richards and Elizabeth Trewhella were cousins. Thus the continued use of "Trewhella" as a middle name for their children as John Nankervis moved on in life.

I was researching another Upper Peninsula Michigan family when I discovered that John Nankervis married one more time: to (his cousin) Elizabeth Newton, widow of Samuel Williams. Elizabeth's son John Newton Williams married Mary Trewhella Nankervis (daughter of John Nankervis' second marriage with Martha Frances Richards.)

In 1922, John's daughters, Martha Trewhella Nankervis Williams and Mary Trewhella Nankervis Hosking (along with daughter) made emergency passport applications at Bessemer, Michigan, to return to Cornwall to visit a dying family member, whom I believe was their aunt, Amelia Stone Richards. They did not arrive before she died.

To add a question to this in hopes of continued dialog, I am wondering what happened to Martha and Mary's brother, Robert Richards Nankervis, a railway porter. My last sighting of him is via an 1894 employment record of the Great Western Railway.

Spinster sister, Bessie Newton Nankervis, of Cliff Cottage, was granted administration of her aunt Amelia's estate.

Z (I feel like Zorro when I do this!)