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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2009 18:24:43 GMT -5
Hello This lady, Ada Glasson, appears in the 1851 to 1881 censuses. Her birth is 1846 but she always appears in somebody else's household, even as a 4 year old in 1851 with Ann Curnow. With the Sandow family in 1861, Quick family in 1871 and Polkinghorne in 1881. Her birth place is given as Lelant for three times and Ludgvan in the fourth. I am sure I know who she is, but I do not know why she did not stay with her mother, Ann Glasson of Polpeor. She was clearly illegitimate when born on the 10th June 1846 at Polpeor, near Lelant. At a quick glance the only Ann that could have been her mother was Ann, the daughter of Joseph and Wilmot Glasson. Wilmot was of course Wilmot nee Quick. Her mother Ann stayed at Polpeor and also appears in all those censuses. So why did her daughter not stay with her? But more importantly Ada disappears after the 1881 census and so my question is - does anybody have a record of Ada after 1881 - maybe shipping, death, marriage etc? Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 24, 2009 1:32:51 GMT -5
Always with the problems! ;D Yet another intriguing little scenario and it does not look like being easy. My initial foray into this has centred on FreeBMD and the UK Census. Looking at the 1891 Census and I have come up with one 'possible' which is certainly worth looking at. 1891 Cornwall Gonew, Lelant Edward MADDERN, head, mar., 43, agricultural labourer, Paul Ada do., wife, mar., 45, Lelant Annie J do., daur., 7, scholar, Lelant Mabel do., daur., 5, scholar, Lelant On face value the first reaction is to dismiss this as improbable given the ages of all parties. The age of Edward and Ada would suggest children prior to the two listed but ............ But why should this family be considered as being of possible interest? Primarily - because I can find no marriage for Edward and Ada. Ada is 'around' the right age and her birthplace is a match with three of the four previous Census. In 1881 Edward Maddern (seems to be the same one) is age 30 and living at Wheal Kitty, Lelant with his widowed mother Jane, married sister Maria Grose (with her husband) and brother Charles. Edward is also then a farm labourer. Edward and Ada, along with the two daughters, were still at Gonew in 1901 with Ada's age 54 and birthplace Lelant. Like you say - no clues to be found in the earlier Census although I must say that EDAH GLADSON was a little hard to find in 1851! I can find no record of these two in the Immigration records either although I have not tried all the possible variant spellings. But there seems no real indication that one or other, let alone both, had left the UK. I suppose it has to be considered possible that Edward and Ada never married. On the other hand! this one looks a little curious. From FreeBMD:- 1882 September Qtr Vol 5c Page 375 Penzance R.D. Edward MADDERN EDITH GLASSONMost interesting given the earliest Edith Glasson in FreeBMD is born 1868 and in the 1881 Census we have one Edith born St Austell about 1870 and another at Camborne in 1880 with her parents John and Edith. Of the two remaining Ediths we have one born Tavistock about 1878 and one born Battersea around the mid-1870's. I might suggest this requires just a little more investiagation and it would not surprise me to find that EDITH is actually ADA. CT At
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Post by HeatherC on Dec 24, 2009 3:48:32 GMT -5
Don't know if this helps but........ Edward Maddern is a widower by the time of the 1911 Census and living with him are his daughters Mabel (now Roberts) and Annie Jane along with the husband of Mabel, Arthur Roberts, insurance agent, born Lelant. Edward John Roberts, their son, aged under one month and Grace Johns Williams, monthly nurse, born Ludvan. An ADA MADDERN aged 57 died in 1904 - From Freebmd, Deaths Sept Qtr 1904, Penzance District Vol 5c Page 132. Best regards HeatherC Update Just found in marriages Uny Lelant 8 July 1882 married after Banns Edward MADDERN , 33, farm labourer of Polpeon, father Thomas Maddern, farm labourer To Edith GLASSON, 35, of Gun-wyn, father - none given. Witnesses: William Boundy, Jane Nicholas Also, an Edith Glasson had a child that was baptised in 1866 - 21 March 1866 Joseph s/o Edith Glasson , Union from St. Ives
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 25, 2009 1:24:48 GMT -5
Thankyou Heather - I think this pretty much seals matters and should allow Lannanta to sleep a little more easily at night. Taking all items into account there seems no doubt that 'Edith' was a temporary abberation. Perhaps the result of an 'accent'? Although back in 1851 I did find Ada recorded as EDAH in that Census. But I think the marriage details clinch matters regardless of the Christian name. 'Edith' was 'of Gunwin' as was Ada, was of the same age as Ada and the name of her father was not recorded - usually an indication that she was illegitimate. (And we know that Ada was illegitimate.) On top of this the earliest record I have found for the birth of an Edith Glasson is 1868. Exactly why Ada was recorded as Edith at marriage may remain an unknown but I think it safe to say the problem has been solved.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 25, 2009 2:42:26 GMT -5
Just one more thought. Although there is no mention of signatures in the transcribed marriage record I think it would be most interesting to see how Ada signed her name when she married Edward Maddern.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2009 17:06:41 GMT -5
CT and Heather Yep, pretty smart work when you look at it. I am happy enough to leave it at that, although I am still left with the nagging doubt as to why Ada's mother appeared to have rejected her. Ann was at Polpeor the whole time prior to Ada marrying, at times had servants in the house, but never her daughter - strange methinks. Just as a matter of interest, I noted that the eldest daughter is named Annie J - possibly Annie Jane. Ada's mother, assuming I am correct, was also called Annie in the 1891 census, and aged 77 appears at Polpeor Farm with her brother James Glasson. Edward's mother was named Jane - Annie Jane - sort of makes sense. CT, yesterday, actually the day before, I was idly looking at the three familes where Ada was found in 1851, 61 and 71. I reckon if you were idly sitting in front of your library you would almost be able to link those three familes together in some way to Ada. Lannanta, where Christmas has come and gone once again and we are left with the expectation of New Year and a - "here we go again" for 2010.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 25, 2009 18:39:13 GMT -5
I might just have a crack at that a little later on tonight. First thing I have to do though is finish wading through the Trewhella information on Ancestry again to get all my bits and pieces up to date. Second thing will be to check the start of the Cricket. Third thing will be to definitely get some sleep! CT
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Post by sue on Dec 26, 2009 12:21:11 GMT -5
And I think the Christmas spirit may show that Ann Glasson did not perhaps reject her illegitimate daughter Ada after all.... The farming Ann Glasson's parents were doing in Polpear in the 1850s & 1860s would have barely scraped a living, 9 -15 acres of very exposed land. In the 1861 census Ann is a 45 year old single housemaid, living at home with her parents and brother. Ada is 14, more than old enough to be away elsewhere as a live-in servant at Trevalyan, a few miles away. No, I can't explain why Ada is a 4 year-old lodger with the widowed Ann Curnow at Trembethow in 1851, when mother Ann Glasson is with her parents at Polpeor - but a census is a snapshot of that night only, and there are many reasons why a 4 year old child of a fairly poor unmarried mother might be "lodging" with a perhaps distant aunt-type aged widowed relative; the unknown father of Ada is perhaps the link. But more importantly, look closely at the 1871 census entry for the still single Ann Glasson now aged 55, with her brother James at Polpeor, and you will see that residing with this Glasson brother and sister pair is a farm servant: one Edward Madron aged 22 born in Paul - the man Ann's daughter Ada went on eventually to marry, many years later. So I think Ada may well have met Edward through him residing with her mother at Polpear, which would mean they were not estranged after all. Edward's family, as in his parents, brother and sister, were very nearby in 1871 at Wheal Kitty, (neighbours of my GGfather Thomas Curnow) and after Edward's father died he was back at home with his widowed mother, brother and sister in 1881; and it is from Wheal Kitty, Polpear, that Edward the next year married Ada Glasson. Happy New Year for next week! Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 26, 2009 13:30:05 GMT -5
A very well put together explanation Sue! I have not yet had time to look further into the query but I think you have saved me a bit of work. More study of this will be useful though and we might just find some more connections here. Another very good team effort! CT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2009 18:48:00 GMT -5
Hi Sue I agree with CT that what you have stated all makes sense, and any further discussion is mere conjecture. Saying that, while it may be that Joseph and Wilmot were barely making a living off the farm, they did support 7 or so children in their earlier years. By the time Ada came along the farm was only supporting the two parents and one daughter, given that son James was working in his own right. Having studied the remainder of this Glasson family it still does not feel right to me - unless the father was at one of the houses where Ada was found in her earlier years. For example, why employ Edward Madron in 1871 as an indoor farm servant when all they had to do was feed Ada? Why is Wilmot Glasson, a niece there in 1881 and not daughter Ada? I am quite happy now to leave it to history and move onto new people because at the end of it all Ada was where she was for whatever reason. Lannanta
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Post by sue on Jan 5, 2010 8:55:29 GMT -5
I have been wondering if my theory is wrong, about Ada meeting her future husband at her mother's house, mother being Ann Glasson, lifetime spinster sister of James; because Lannanta is of course right, those were poor times for farmers, but the Glassons at Polpear were better off than some. So, idling away, I notice that said Anne Glasson in the 1841 census at Polpear as she is all her life, is aged 25; but there is another Anne Glasson in residence as a servant, aged 15. My quick search would make this younger Ann Glasson the daughter of Jakeh Glasson buried 18/5/1823 & Jennifer Murrish, Ann baptised 14/6/1823, so actually aged 17/18. In 1846 when Ada Glasson was born at Polpear, Anne Glasson the younger would have been 23; in some ways a more likely age to have had a child out of wedlock than the older Anne born and bred at Polpear, who was by then 30. More than that, Anne Glasson the younger was a relative (niece?) working at the house as a servant, and her father had died within weeks of her having been born, so her circumstances were not as secure as those of cousin Anne aged 30. I cannot find Ann Glasson the younger in the 1851 census – but I think I have found her under another name. It now looks to me that she left the illegitimate Ada in the Lelant area, having by then had another illegitimate child, who she did keep with her, because in the latter instance it looks as if the father of the child looked after her – see below.......* Then I see an unmarried Ann Glasson (I surmise the same one, Ann the younger) baptises a child called Leonard Glasson in Towednack 28/8/59; yet FreeBMD only shows a Leonard Quick born a few months before then, in the June 1859 quarter. And then in the 1861 census Ann Glasson (Glossion) the younger is recorded as aged 38 (seems correct age) as servant to the Quicks (John Quick farmer born Towednack) at Castle Hayle, with a Leonard Quick shown as aged 4; and by the 1871 census Ann is still with the Quicks, now at Genew in Lelant, with young Leonard Quick showing as aged 12, which would fit with the 1859 birth to Ann the younger. Then in Jun 1873 FreeBMD has a marriage between John Quick & Ann Glasson; the younger Ann Glasson getting married at last? He John Quick having been the father of Ann's child Leonard Glasson/Quick?? And probably the others... In 1861 and 1871 censuses John Quick farmer is shown as married, Ann Glasson residing with him as servant, at Genew in Lelant in 1871, Castle hayle in Phillack 1861; the wife not resident. But one of the 2 John Quicks of the right age, 45, born Towednack, is in the 1851 census as married to Mary, 20 years older than he – and they are at Genew, Lelant – where John Quick is back at by the 1871 census, but without his wife, rather, with Ann Glasson & a 2nd set of children; and there is a married, but living alone, Mary Quick in the area of approximately the age to be John Quick's wife in both the 1861 and 1871 censuses. If it be she the Mary Quick who dies in the June 1873 quarter per FreeBMD, recorded age 85, then it would indicate John Quick & Ann Glasson have been waiting over a decade for that to happen, rather than John divorce Mary - and they, John Quick and Ann Glasson, promptly immediately marry, some time after the birth of not only Leonard but also various the other children: Walter Quick Glasson was born September 1865 quarter, yet on censuses is Walter Quick, for instance, farmer's son to John Quick. And in 1881 John Quick is still at Genew with wife Ann (nee Glasson) and some of their children. If this Ann Glasson who eventually married John Quick in 1873 when they were c.67 and 48 respectively, bore John Quick a whole 2nd set of children i.e. if all the children per the 1861 census residing with them were not only John Quick's but also hers, then Sophia was being born in the Redruth area September quarter 1849 per Freebmd (Sophia Quick) – and lo, in the 1851 census there is only one Sophia Quick aged 1, and she is living with her mother Ann, aged 28... spot on for Ann Glasson's age. * Ann declares herself as a married annuitant – I would suggest in fact perhaps an unmarried mother, adopting the surname of her married man lover John Quick, still at that time with ageing 1st wife Mary and his 1st set of children, over at Gunew in Lelant. That would explain why Ann Glasson the younger could not be found in the census of 1851. And sadly, Ann's 1stborn Ada has been left with Ann Curnow at Trembethow, a quarter of a mile south-west from where mother Ann Glasson had been at Polpear, whereas John Quick who was I think the father of all Ann's later children was half a mile east of Polpear at Genew........... Lannanta has now kindly pointed me in the direction of another thread mentioning the John Quick/Ann Glasson liaison, on the Quick board: Quick Problem No. 2 - SCANDAL??!! Here I find there are details to confirm the baptisms of their other illegitimate children; and that Sophia Glasson Quick now Warmington was living in 1871 and 1881 next door to her parents at Gonew. The last thing I have noted is that Ann Quick (nee Glasson) - this younger Ann Glasson - died aged 67 in the June quarter of 1890; her husband John Quick dying, I think, in the June quarter of 1888 aged 82. So neither were alive to be noted in the 1891 census, having been at Genew with their family for many years. In fact, Sophia having moved over to Splattenridden, I can only find one family living at Genew in the 1891 census: Edward Maddern, his wife Ada and their children..... So: I would like to suggest that Ada Glasson was not the daughter of Ann who was born and died at Polpeor, brother of James and daughter of Joseph Glasson and Wilmot Quick, which was rightly concerning Lannanta as to why Ada did not stay with her apparent mother at Polpeor. Instead, I would apologetically withdraw my perhaps too imaginative theorising in my last post, and instead suggest: Ada Glasson was the 1stborn daughter of Anne Glasson baptised Camborne 14/6/1823, of Gwinear, and thus Ada was the grandchild of Jakeh Glasson and Jennifer Murrish. Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jan 5, 2010 15:31:13 GMT -5
Sue - Lannanta put this possibility to me off line and after a little searching around I must say that I tend to agree. Although not totally unusual for an older woman to have an illegitimate child it seems much more likely that it was the younger Ann Glasson who was the mother of Ada. We know from the liaison with John Quick that she had a tendency towards promiscuity. I have not been able to find any link to the Curnows (1841) or Quicks (1851) with whom young Ada was staying in the respective Census although I would have thought that they would be related in some way. However I think the fact that she was not with her mother in 1851 and did not appear in the household of John Quick in later years points to the probability that John Quick was not her father. John was certainly the father of Sophia Quick and it 'seems obvious' that it was probably he who put up the money for the dwelling at Redruth in 1851 for Ann and Sophia. I think now that we can leave Ann Glasson at Polpeor as a childless spinster. BTW - John Quick died in 1888 and Ann in 1890. CT
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Post by Deleted on May 1, 2012 21:17:24 GMT -5
Perhaps not.
Joseph Glasson was born at the Union Workhouse Madron in December 1865, son of Edith Glasson. He only lived for a short while I would venture to suggest. However, like before, this is the only Edith that can "fit the bill" as the mother.
Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 2, 2012 5:05:04 GMT -5
Lannanta - you might say that this is both curious and frustrating! But I will resurrect one of my comments from earlier in this discussion:- In a very juvenile looking scrawl Edith Glasson, age 35 when she married Edward Maddern, signed her name as ............................. eda CT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 1:45:44 GMT -5
Good morning
I would disagree with the following statement:
In 1892 the younger Ann discussed above had died two years earlier. The elder Ann was still alive.
The following two articles appeared in the Cornishman newspaper in 1892 and 1899. The articles relate to Ann (senior) and her brother James Glasson.
First, the following was reported in the Cornishman newspaper in 1899:-
In 1892 in the very same newspaper the following article had appeared:-
The important information here is Ann senior having a daughter and the daughter is still alive.
Karlan
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