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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 5:08:10 GMT -5
CT If the Israel who married in 1855 at Redruth to Elizabeth Ann Richards was a bachelor, and was aged 39, and was the son of Israel Quick the carpenter - how many options are there for who he could be - one? Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 3, 2009 9:01:21 GMT -5
Lannanta - I have an idea he is one that I made a note of a little while back to follow up on.
I should think he is almost certainly the son of Israel Quick and Jane Allen but I need to recheck my notes.
He was buried at Helston 18th March 1874 age 58 I believe.
And I have an idea my note was about the probability of him being the father of a Joseph Quick from memory.
CT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2009 13:32:13 GMT -5
Yes, this Israel was mentioned under the "Loveday" topic in the Quick section but was left unconcluded. Briefly, in the 1851 census Israel and Elizabeth are in Camborne and appear as lodgers, but both married - which I believe to be wishful thinking on their part . Also in the same house are some members of the Richards family - in particular one 11 year old Thomas Richards. There is also a John Richards, aged 35 if my memory serves me correctly, who is likely to be a brother of Elizabeth's - in my humble opinion. In 1861 Israel and Elizabeth have moved to Fore Street in Marazion where Israel, who is blind, has ceased being a mine smith and has become a lodging house keeper. They have two boys listed as children - Thomas R. Quick, aged 19 and Joseph aged 7. There is a strong possibility that the 19 year old Thomas is the Thomas Richards from the 1851 census - but even Joseph struggles with his legitimacy in this scenario. Israel does not appear to want to be found easily in the 1871 census, whereas Elizabeth is once again found in Marazion as a guest house keeper. Then Israel dies before the 1881 census. Although the place of birth for Elizabeth wavers during the various census it is clear that she was from Zennor and Israel is relatively consistent with St Ives. I think that Israel must be the son of Israel Quick and Jane Allen. The only stick in the mud is the fact that on the marriage certificate Israel states his occupation to be a "hawker" and it is the only time that his occupation appears as such - normally a blacksmith or laterly a lodging house keeper. Lannanta
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2009 7:21:31 GMT -5
Lannanta - it seems part of my memory serves me correctly anyway! I will need to locate my notes on this one and also read through the thread again. Unfortunately this may take a few days as fire brigade commitments are building and must take some priority at the moment with the fire season looming. We also seem to be very busy all of a sudden with callouts - with four out of five in the last six days being vehicle fires! Will get back onto Israel as soon as I can. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 25, 2010 5:46:47 GMT -5
Seems I never did quite get back to the problem of Israel and Elizabeth last Summer! However the new thread regarding Joseph Quick and Elizabeth Allen has brought Israel to the fore and I will take a look at the currently known information and then see if I can find a fresh path to the correct answers. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 25, 2010 11:22:56 GMT -5
If Elizabeth Richards was indeed from Zennor and, as stated on the marriage certificate, was daughter of John then it would appear she must probably be the daughter of John Richards and Mary Thomas who married 10th September 1791 at Zennor.
Elizabeth was baptised 9th January 1812 at Zennor d/o John.
Will have to take another look at this tomorrow.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 25, 2010 15:10:01 GMT -5
I have had another look at the Census and also performed another check of possible baptisms for Elizabeth Ann Richards. It appears that she must almost certainly be the one baptised at Zennor in 1812 d/o John which leads me to two points. 1. if her parents were the John Richards and Mary Thomas who married at Zennor in 1791 then it would seem to be mere coincidence that John and Thomas Richards were lodging at the same abode in the 1851 Census as Israel Quick. 2. if Elizabeth was related to the 'blind' John Richards of 1851 then there is another John and Mary Richards lurking about who were a little migratory. 'Blind' John Richards stated he was born at Penzance while young Thomas (age 11) was born at Lelant. If we look 'in area' then John RICHARDS married Mary SILBY 6th January 1798 at Madron but the problem here is that both were widowed! We therefore come back to the 1791 marriage at Zennor. Stuck again! CT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 17:01:21 GMT -5
Good evening
In the 1841 census the mentioned above Israel Quick, smith, is at the Sisley household in Stennack, St Ives.
Taking a sidestep, a certain Grace Allan Hill married Josias Michell in 1828 at Phillack and had a number of children, mostly at St Ives. Josias Michell died in St Ives in 1836. Grace and her family can be found in the 1841 census at Trelowarrin Street in Camborne.
Recently while going through old papers I found a message posted to a website showing the birth details for a certain Emma Quick in 1838 at Camborne. I looked at the BMD's online and found the mother's maiden name given as Hill.
However the details that had been taken from what must have been the birth entry were: Emma Quick, 3rd April 1838, father Israel Quick, mother Grace Michell formerly Hill, Union Street Camborne.
The OPC database has the baptism on 28th April 1838 at Camborne as Emma Michell, private, mother a widow. It also has a burial in September for Emma Michell aged 6 months.
It appears as if Israel had met Grace the widow while in St Ives before he went on to co-habitate with Elizabeth Richards.
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 8, 2017 19:41:27 GMT -5
I have now identified all parties in this puzzle EXCEPT for Israel Quick. It may have been the man you think it was but I do have some doubts. The main reason that I have any doubts about this is that Grace Allan Hill was baptized at St Anthony in Meneage in 1798 so she would have been age 40 when Emma was born in 1838. The Israel Quick you suggest was the father would have been just 20! Now I am not saying this was not possible because there are certainly enough precedents but it certainly encourages me to look further and ask questions. There were at least a couple of other Israel Quicks around St Ives during the 1830s and most were still thereabouts in 1841 but those of age were married. Of course the married men can't be ruled out either but .... The one Israel Quick who is not accounted for was baptized at St Ives in 1797 to Israel Quick and Catherine Repper. The problem with him is that he does not appear in the 1841 Census and I have found no record of him prior to that. It is possible he was in the area and then left prior to the Census and it is possible he may have left the area many years before - perhaps in the maritime trade. The key factor may be whether or not the birth record for Emma Quick shows the occupation of the father. If the occupation of Israel Quick is recorded and it is 'smith' then there can certainly be some 'finger-pointing' but if the occupation is anything else then I should think some more pondering might be in order. CT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2017 3:57:49 GMT -5
The father of Emma, Israel Quick, was definitely said to be a "Smith".
Trinklady.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 14, 2017 19:26:43 GMT -5
Well the only Israel Quick that I have seen recorded as a 'smith' is the son of Israel Quick and Jane Allen baptized at St Ives in 1818 so obviously he would be the frontrunner from that point of view. He was at St Ives in 1841 and stated he was age 36 and at Camborne in 1851 age 33 when he was recorded as being 'blind'. He married at Redruth in 1855 and in 1861 was at Marazion - this time stating he was age 48 and had been blind for 18 years. I can't find him at the moment in 1871 but I think his name for that year was transcribed in some odd way. Anyway he was buried at Helston in March 1874 recorded then as age 58.
If these ages were to be believed then he was born anytime from about 1813 to 1818. He could have been illegitimate but there is nothing to support that and his parents married in December 1817 at which time his father was age 22 and his mother age 21.
All other Israel Quicks can be accounted for except for one - Israel Quick baptized 9th August 1797 at St Ives to Israel Quick and Catherine Repper. I also having nothing more on his brothers John (1793) and James (1805) although John is one of a number of possibilities for a burial at St Ives in 1804. But there is no possible burial for Israel and no marriage so I have no further information on him at all after his baptism.
Unless this missing Israel is eventually found then the son of Israel and Jane seems to be the probable culprit.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 18, 2017 6:00:19 GMT -5
It seems that Israel Quick, blacksmith, had yet another child! Only this time there is no indication of who the mother was! IN the OPC collection of Death Certificates there is one for Elizabeth Quick age 11 months who died at East End, Redruth 29th October 1850. She died of pneumonia and is recorded as 'daughter of Israel Quick, blacksmith'. The Informant in this case was 'Elizabeth Quick of East End, Redruth, present at the death'. My first thoughts on this informant were that she was probably Israel's stepmother Elizabeth Blackwell who had married Israel's father at Falmouth in 1848. But before proceeding any further I decided to have a look at the 1851 Census. In 1851 Israel Quick, now claiming to be age 36, was at Camborne. He was recorded as 'married' and with him was his 'wife' Elizabeth age 30. This is most curious as Israel did not marry Elizabeth Richards until 1855 - and in any case, she was born in 1812 and so would have been about 38 or 39 in 1851. The other notable thing about Elizabeth is that she is supposed to have been born at St Ives whilst Elizabeth Richards was born at Zennor. FreeBMD shows no record of this marriage and the only marriage for an Israel Quick to Elizabeth Blackwell in 1848. I can also find no recognizable birth record for the child and there appears to be no death recorded for the mysterious Elizabeth from the 1851 Census. The curious thing is that I cannot find Elizabeth Richards in 1851 ...... so, is this Elizabeth age 30 and born St Ives claiming to be married to Israel Quick in the 1851 Census actually the Elizabeth Richards that he married four years later? It would seem possible that she is even though her age is 8 years younger and her birthplace recorded as St Ives rather than Zennor. That is how I will enter it into my database for the time being but if anyone has any light to shed on the problem then please do so! CT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2017 10:04:46 GMT -5
CT
Perhaps it is the Elizabeth Richards registered in the March quarter of 1850 in the Redruth District with no maiden name given for the mother?
Interesting that in the 1851 census the lodging house where Israel, Elizabeth etc are found is described:
Trinklady
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 18, 2017 14:14:49 GMT -5
I agree! But I find it a little strange that I searched specifically for such an entry earlier tonight but it did not show up. I searched on Quick initially but then tried using Richards and even (on FreeBMD) all females named Elizabeth in the Redruth area in 1849 and 1850. I must say that this is not the first time I have had this problem. On other occasions I have searched for an entry in the GRO index but it has not appeared but when I altered the search period suddenly the entry I was looking for showed up. (e.g. initial search on the specific year shows nothing but then expanding to search specific year +/-1 or 2 produced the record) CT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2017 14:50:09 GMT -5
CT
I find it best not to use the Christian name on the GRO site, rather surname and year or even the district.... I have had the same issues as you when using a Christian name.
Here is a wee test for you. Try searching for Quick Deaths on FreeBMD during the June quarter of 1880.
Trinklady
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