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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2009 9:31:59 GMT -5
William Bryant Shugg and Mary Stevens. Mary was born about 1849 at St Ives d/o William and Mary Stevens. According to one Census William was born at St Ives but in another his brithplace is given as Lelant. I suspect he is this one:- William son of John and Elizabeth Stevens bp. 10th October 1824 Lelant. Mary was born at St Ives about 1826 and it would appear the marriage occurred sometime about 1846 with the eldest child, William, born about 1847. 1851 Census St Ives Teetotal Row William STEVENS, head, mar., 25, fisherman, Lelant Mary do., wife, mar., 23, St Ives William do., son, 4, St Ives Mary do., daur., 1, St Ives Catherine do., daur., 1 month, St Ives Mary DANIEL, grandmother, widow, 77, St Ives Eliza TREVORROW, sister-in-law, 13, house servant, St Ives I am fairly sure this must be the correct family but it does throw some doubt on the above baptism for William Stevens. The fact that Eliza Trevorrow is a sister-in-law confirms this doubt as it suggests the following marriage at St Ives:- 23 Feb 1846 by Banns William Stevens 20 bachelor Mariner of St. Ives (Father: George Stevens, Mariner) Mary Trevorrow 19 spinster of St. Ives (Father: John Trevorrow, Fisherman) Witnesses: Thomas Williams, William Stevens Given everything has been recorded correctly we now have George Stevens as the father of William which indicates that William was the son of this marriage:- George STEVENS married Catherine WEBBER 14th February 1826 at Lelant This would fit with his birthplace being Lelant but I now need to work out how Mary DANIEL is William's grandmother. It could be that she was married twice but ... The answer is much simpler than that! Mary DANIEL was not the grandmother of William STEVENS but rather of his wife. Mary Trevorrow was baptised 21st January 1827 at St Ives d/o John Trevorrow and Mary Daniel who married at St Ives 27th October 1822. Mary Daniel was baptised at St Ives 6th August 1797 d/o John and Mary. Unfortunately I am currently not able to find a marriage for John and Mary Daniel. Not sure about William Shugg's second marriage but will try to have a quick look and see if I can identify Jane Stevens. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2009 9:47:10 GMT -5
Rowena - looks like you have a couple more children to record for William Bryant Shugg! I am sending you a couple of Census images via email. I have not found William in 1881 or 1891 so more work will need to be done there. However he did have two children born in South Africa as you will see on the images from 1891 (daughter Mary was head of the house) and for 1901. Jane Stevens, William's second wife, appears to be the housekeeper in the 1891 Census. Furthermore - I now have reason to believe that Jane was the sister of William Shugg's first wife. (See image for Jane Stevens in 1881) I note that you suggest several children to William from his second marriage - but I must question this. It seems a little strange that this second marriage occurred in 1892 yet no children appear until after the 1901 Census. So I must wonder whether those children do actually belong here. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2009 10:26:29 GMT -5
Armed with the knowledge from the Census records I would suggest that at least the last two children here belong to William Stevens Shugg - son of William Bryant Shugg and first wife Mary. William Stevens Shugg was born in South Africa about 1882 or 1883 and was married in 1905. Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ALLEN Jane Quick Penzance 5c 518 NICHOLAS Beatrice Jane Penzance 5c 518 SHUGG William Stevens Penzance 5c 518 UBSDELL Walter Henry Penzance 5c 518 And looking at the possible bride I now have to find out where Jane Quick Allen belongs!! Looking at your list of children (as above) my first reaction was that it was highly unlikely that William Bryant Stevens Shugg would be a son of William and Jane. And now that we know that William and Mary had a son named William born in South Africa it is more certain. The following from FreeBMD shows that he was the son of William Stevens Shugg and Jane Quick Allen:- Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Jun 1913 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Eva K Gendall Penzance 5c 354 Lewis Herbert L Curnow Penzance 5c 354 Shugg William B S Allen Penzance 5c 354 Stevens James W Ninnis Penzance 5c 354 Witheridge Benjamin S Veal Penzance 5c 354 I will have to call it quits for now given the hour and also because I am now getting into some more most confusing stuff here. Jane Q Allen appears in the 1891 Census as a grandaughter to Joseph C Allen and his wife Grace. This appears to be Joseph Benjamin Champion Allen who was baptised at Ludgvan in 1831 as the illegitimate son of Elizabeth Allen. I am not sure which Elizabeth she is as Joseph is a servant in 1841 and not with his mother. And I cannot find a birth for Jane Quick Allen nor find her in the 1901 Census. Also strange is that Joseph and Grace Allen appear to have had no children - at least none that appear in the Census with them. In 1861 Grace is living on her own with Joseph obviously away at sea. In 1871 Grace is with Joseph on board the vessel 'Vine' where he was Mate. I will have to look into this further when more time permits. CT
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Post by elsie on Jun 26, 2010 11:47:47 GMT -5
"Son, William Shugg bpt 7 Nov 1830 St Ives, married Elizabeth Gray 28 June 1852, St John’s Church, Wynberg, Cape Province, South Africa. She was born c.1832 to parents John and Margaret Gray, in either the UK or South Africa. Elizabeth died in 1875, Waterloo, Sydney, NSW. "
I’m eager to know if you got more information about Elizabeth Gray with parents John and Margaret Gray.
Thanks Elsie
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Post by rowena on Jun 29, 2010 4:33:12 GMT -5
Hi Elsie
Apologies, I have to correct you on the William Shugg above. That quote above looks like my research, and the William Shugg who married Elizabeth Gray was the son of a different couple.
His parents were William Shugg and Aurelia Curnow who married in St Ives and emigrated to Australia, arriving on the Nora Criena at Port Geelong, in Victoria on 25 Jan 1854. Either the 2 eldest children, William Shugg and Jenefer Shugg travelled to South Africa earlier and separately to their parents, or the family spent some years in SA before travelling on to Australia.
Both William and Jenefer married in SA. Jenefer to a John Starke in 1851, Capetown and raised a large family (my notes below). Jenefer/Janefer Curnow Shugg bapt. 30 Sep 1832, Ludgvan, and died 30 May 1911, Observatory Rd, Capetown, Cape Province, South Africa. Married: John Starke bapt. 13 Apr 1823, Little Ellingham, Norfolk, England. His parents were Isaac Starke bapt. 1788, Little Ellingham, Norfolk, who died 1859, Little Ellingham, Norfolk, and Lydia Machen bapt.1794, Sheffield, Yorkshire and who died 1825 Little Ellingham, Norfolk. His parents married 30 Nov 1814, Little Ellingham, Norfolk. John died age 75, 8 Sep 1898, at home at Selhurst, Observatory Rd, Capetown, Cape Province, South Africa. John and Jenefer married 9 June 1851, by Banns, at the Wesleyan Chapel, Capetown, Cape Province, South Africa. They had a family of 14 children between 1852 and 1878. John was a farmer.
What I have on William Shugg and Elizabeth Gray is below. He married a 2nd time after she died to sarah Folkard. William Shugg Bapt. 7 Nov 1830, St Ives (mother’s name spelt as Amelia). Listed in the 1841 Census, age 10. Likely to have emigrated prior to 1851 with his family to South Africa, where he lived and worked, before travelling onto Australia. (Unable to find William and his wife Elizabeth in shipping passenger lists into Australia.) He died in 13 Jan 1879, Waterloo, Sydney, New South Wales, Australia. William’s profession was listed as a mason on his marriage record in 1852. Married: Elizabeth Gray. She was born c.1832 to parents John and Margaret Gray, in either the UK or South Africa (Gray is a Scottish name) Elizabeth married 28 June 1852, by Banns, at St John’s Church, Wynberg, Cape Province, South Africa. She was age 20, and their residence was Claremont. She died in 1875, Waterloo, Sydney, NSW.
If you are able to order their marriage record in South Africa, that might provide some further information. I took Elizabeth's parents names - John and Margaret Gray from the online death indexes for New South Wales. Their death certificate may give more information, but I don't have that at this time.
What information can you give me on John and Margaret Gray? Perhaps that may link to the names of their 5 children.
Kind regards, Rowena in Melbourne
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Post by rowena on Jul 12, 2010 6:12:10 GMT -5
Ok Folks,
I would like to ask for help with the husband of Elizabeth Freeman Shugg. She was bpt. 10 Aug 1821, St Ives, daughter of William Jarvis Shugg and Hannah Freeman.
Elizabeth married Thomas Noall on 9 March 1845, St Ives. Married by Banns: Thomas Noall, 22, bachelor, Mariner of St. Ives (Father: Mathew Noall, Mariner). Elizabeth Freeman Shugg, 23, spinster of St. Ives (Father: William Shugg, Mason). Witnesses: Thomas Williams, Mary Vining Davis. The marriage was reported in The West Briton newspaper (Fri 13 Mar 1846) At St Ives ... and on Sunday (last), Mr Noall, to Miss Shugg.
Thomas was bapt. 29 Aug 1824, Scilly Islands to parents Matthew and Jane Noall/Noell.
I've not been able to find his parents marriage, and would like to find who mother Jane is.
Thomas Noall was a master mariner. I've not found him in any Census, and presume he was at sea when they were conducted. Unable to find a registered death in Britain on FreeBMD. I've been told the date of his death was 12 Feb 1869, and this may have been from a family member in the past, but the source is unknown. He may have died at sea. The only FreeBMD death I found did not match the year of his birth. Is there any way of finding out deaths at sea? Any ideas on this? I have another one floating about in the family at the moment, as well.
Wife Jane is noted in the 1851, in Uny Lelant, 1861 and 1891 C. in Illogan. I've also not been able to identify her death, so if someone could check the 1901 C to see if she is still living in Illogan. I couldn't find a FreeBMD death with an age that matched her birth year. Also havn't found any monumental inscriptions. Any help greatly appreciated,
Kind regards, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 12, 2010 6:29:36 GMT -5
Matthew NOALL, mariner, of the Parish married Jane COGAR, spinster, of the Parish by Banns 19th December 1813 St Ives Witnesses:- Thomas M. Cogar, Edwd Richards
Jane was baptised as Jenny Cogar 9th March 1791 at St Ives daughter of Thomas Cogar and Mary Michell who married 5th February 1769 at St Ives.
The first witness, Thomas M Cogar, was Jane's brother Thomas Michell Cogar.
CT
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Post by rowena on Nov 23, 2010 21:21:12 GMT -5
I did find the answer to the above query on the identity of Elizabeth Vining. She was the niece of Hannah Vining, being the daughter of John Vining, Hannah's brother.
Rowena
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Post by andrewwa on Mar 26, 2011 5:05:58 GMT -5
To Cornish Terrier
Re Jane Quick Allen
I too am unable to find a birth for Jane Quick Allen born c 1886.
However, I think that there is a good chance that Jane's mother was Grace Allen who married George Webber Q3 1886. The "Quick" may give us an indication of the possible father.
I think that Grace's father was indeed the Joseph Benjamin Champion Allen to whom you refer. There is continuous census data for Joseph & Grace Allen for 1841-1891.
In 1881 they are on Back St, St Ives with 3 daughters (Kate, Grace and Bessie). By this stage Kate has married (Q1 1880) Richard Peters b 1860.
Richard's parents appear to be Richard Peters and Elizabeth nee Penberthy.
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Post by Sarch on Mar 26, 2011 12:58:43 GMT -5
I can find what seems to be an Illegitimate child Jane Allen baptised 2 Sep 1887 St Ives Mother Bessie Residence Beach, of Custom Ho Any help - I know the Quick is missing? Sarch
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Post by andrewwa on Mar 27, 2011 5:24:51 GMT -5
Thanks Sarch Good to have a record to support the possibility. Andrew
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 27, 2011 9:03:18 GMT -5
Andrew - I reckon you can certainly forget about Grace being the mother. The transcribed record shows that Jane Allen daughter of Bessie was baptised 2nd September 1887 as shown by Sarch. But it also shows that she was born 3rd August 1887 which might have been a bit embarassing for Grace. She is certainly a grandaughter of Joseph and Grace and is recorded as such in 1891. Regardless of the baptismal record I think all other evidence along with process of elimination would point to Elizabeth/Bessie being the culprit anyway. CT
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Post by andrewwa on Mar 31, 2011 1:17:09 GMT -5
CT
Thanks for the confirmation.
A
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Post by kernow on Mar 2, 2012 6:19:23 GMT -5
Hi Rowena/Cornish terrier. Fascinating facts on Shuggs ...but you left out my Gt Gt Grandfather..son of W B Shugg and Mary Stevens...He was called William Stevens Shugg born in Cape Town SA....also WBS second wife was Marys sister Jane...So it was his son WSS who had Maurice,Mary,Janet (netty) my grandmother,ang Gordon....NO william...........I have 2 Auntys and a uncle living in Perth...i live in Helston Cornwall abt 10 miles from St Ives....any questions feel free to ask....have photos of alot of the above ..
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 2, 2012 11:11:06 GMT -5
Hi Kernow - welcome to Penwith Genealogy and thankyou for the update.
Do you have information about the family in South Africa including birth information for William Stevens Shugg and his sister Elizabeth who were both apparently born at Cape Town?
I am sure Rowena will be responding to you very soon so I will look forward to progress.
CT
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