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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 21, 2009 11:46:56 GMT -5
Rowena - I will take a look at the Goodman problem shortly.
Hannah d/o James and Prudence VINEY bp. 17th March 1816 at St Ives
John Andrews Shugg bp. 29th June 1838 St Ives
I don't know about his wife at this stage.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 21, 2009 13:13:46 GMT -5
Rowena - I have not been able to find the marriage details for Thomas Price Goodman and Hannah Shugg.
They were both living at St Ives in 1881 so it may have been a Register Office Marriage.
I have checked St Ives and Halsetown which would be the most likely Parishes.
But I have found a fair bit of information about Thomas Price Goodman.
All images are being sent by email.
His father was Henry Goodman was first married to someone named Harriet. I have been unable to find that marriage in the registers which is strange as all events were at Lambeth.
However - FreeBMD shows that Henry GOODMAN married Harriet RAVAISON September Qtr 1840 Lambeth R.D. Vol 4 Page 220
There was one son from that marriage - Henry George.
Harriet died in 1844 and then Henry married Sarah Elizabeth Price who was the mother of Thomas Price and Edward.
You will receive images for this second marriage, Harriet's burial and the baptisms of the three sons.
Checking FreeBMD and Sarah Elizabeth Goodman died Penzance R.D. December Qtr Vol 5c Page 225.
She probably died at St Ives so information 'may' be available in the Barnoon Cemetery Transcripts.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 21, 2009 13:22:29 GMT -5
Rowena - here is all the Goodman information from the Barnoon Cemetery Transcript.
Unfortunately Sarah Elizabeth is not there.
Goodman James Shugg late of Birmingham West Midlands 4/12/1920 66 also Hannah H. Goodman wife of Thomas P. sister of the above 14/2/1927 77 also Thomas 20/11/1929 78
Goodman Jane wife of James Edmund Goodman 20/10/1938 76 also James 16/4/1950 92
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Post by rowena on Oct 23, 2009 22:18:37 GMT -5
Dumbles and Shuggs.
I have an elusive Edwin William Dumble who married Catherine Shugg, 5 March 1818, St Ives. I'm wondering if anyone may have done some research on Dumble families within the area and can add any further information?
1841 census residence: St Ives Father William Dumble, 40, born White S. Cornwall. Mother Sarah, 40, b. Corn. Children: Catherine 13, b.Corn: Edwin 10, b. outside Census County; Horatio 7, b. outside Census county; Sarah 2 b. Corn.
Found a marriage for William Dumble and Sarah Davey on 29 July 1818, Morval, Cornwall. He was a blacksmith (son's marriage record)
1851 Census gives Horatio's birthpalce as Guernsey, and 1851 & 61 C. give Edwin's birth place as Jersey. I've not got very far trying to confirm this, or find baptisms. I joined the Rootsweb mail list for the Channel Islands, but didn't get any response to my query. Thought I would post on the off-chance someone knew something...
Many thanks for your time, both in reading this, and in any digging that is done. Hopeful.... aren't I? Cheers, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 23, 2009 23:35:27 GMT -5
But you left out the important part from the 1851 Census! It showed that William Dumble was born at Helston. William Dumble bp. 7th October 1798 Helston son of John and Grace Dumble John Dumble married Grace Rowe 24th September 1797 at Helston - Witnesses:- Henry Rowe, Stephen Rowe John and Grace had 8 children that I have found with the baptisms taking place at Helston and Cury. You can find all these on the OPC site. Still searching for the marriage for William. You may have the right one but best to check given there seem to have been a lot of Dumbles at St Neot and Morval is only a little way to the South from there. Shall let you know if I find anything. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 23, 2009 23:45:04 GMT -5
Rowena - this marriage from St Ives might give a little clue to the identity of Sarah Dumble.
28 Oct 1860 by Licence Samuel James 22 bachelor Schoolmaster of St. Ives (Father: Samuel James, Game keeper) Sarah Veale Dumble 21 spinster of St. Ives (Father: William Dumble, White smith) Witnesses: Wm. Dumble, Thomas Williams
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 24, 2009 0:16:03 GMT -5
I am now reasonably confident that we can ignore the 1818 marriage to Saray Davey.
From the 1841 and 1851 Census we can deduce that Catherine, eldest known child of William and Sarah, was born about 1827 or 1828.
William Dumble and Sarah Davey had five children baptised on the Liskeard Wesleyan Methodist Circuit between 1820 and 1829.
Of these one was born 25th January 1827 and another born 5th January 1829 which makes it extremely tight to fit Catherine in.
It would also be strange that not one of these appeared at St Ives in 1841 given that I would expect at least a couple of the five to have survived.
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Post by rowena on Oct 24, 2009 19:00:18 GMT -5
Thanks CT
Yes, I'm in agreement with you that the Morval marriage is not correct. Pretty clever of me to have missed the Helston birth place of William. I checked the 1861 C, and he and his wife's details are consistent. If she was born in Lancells, Devon, then perhaps they were married there. So, I think I'll email the rootsweb lists I'm a member of, to see if anyone can check on their marriage. Recently joined the Devon list, because I had a few loose ends, and here's another one...
Many thanks, once again, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 25, 2009 5:14:26 GMT -5
Rowena - another hint. If you looked at the Census records with a keen eye I think you will find that in 1841 Sarah was recorded as born 'in County'. Then in 1851 we have her born at 'Lancells, Devon'. I think you will find that the birthplace will be LAUNCELLS which is actually in Cornwall but right up north near Morwenstow. Without checking my maps we are getting very close to the small part of Cornwall that shares a land border with Devon. Another thing to keep in mind is that daughter Catherine is recorded in 1841 as having been born 'in County'. I have not yet found a baptism for her but that could be another avenue to the marriage. But I have also not been able to find Catherine after the 1841 Census either. CT
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Post by rowena on Nov 8, 2009 7:05:52 GMT -5
Another new query re Shugg. I'd like to confirm that what I have below is correct, if someone has some time to search for me. Any further detail would be appreciated.
Judith Shugg baptism: 3 July 1803 St Ives, Cornwall, to parents Thomas Jervis Shugg and Judith Quick. She died at age 34, buried 25 April 1837, St Ives, Cornwall. Married Malachi Hingston born 5 Nov 1803 in St Ives, Cornwall, and Baptism: 11 Feb 1806 St Ives, Sion Chapel-Lady Huntingdon. His parents were Malachi Hingston (or Hingiston) born 1765, St Ives, and Sarah Stevens born 1762, St Ives. malachi nad Judith married: 12 Nov 1826, St Ives, Cornwall, England. He died Oct - Dec 1861, Penzance Registration District.
Children of Judith Shugg and Malachi Hingston: 5. Catherine Stevens Hingston born 1827, married James Harry (b.1823) on 2 Sep 1848, St Ives. He died in 1855. 5. Sarah Hingston born 1832 in St Ives. Residence: 1841 Census, she is listed as a servant to her Uncle Robert Shugg. Listed as niece in the 1861 C. living with uncle Robert Shugg and aunt Philippa. Sarah had an illegitimate son, Thomas Hingston born on 28 April 1859, St Ives, and he married a Caroline Woodley. Thomas died in 1930, in Plymouth.
many thanks for any help available with this one.
Kind regards, Rowena (in hot Melbourne)
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 8, 2009 8:58:23 GMT -5
Hi Rowena - would you mind sending this request to me via email? I don't have time at the moment but wll have a look as soon as I get the chance and an email reminder would be more easily found. BTW - I didn't know you were a 'sook'! What are you going to do when it starts to get warm? I consider low to mid-30's as mildly warm. ;D Send me that email and I will do some checking. CT
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Post by rowena on Nov 9, 2009 0:59:46 GMT -5
Thanks to Newlyn for the message re the Hingston web site and I notice there is a one-name study for Hingston as well. For anyone following this track. The address below is for the Hingston - St Ives family line. Looks quite detailed however minimal (that's zilch) research on anyone who married into the family. Private research compiled, no sources given. Hope this doesn't break some kind of Penwith protocol.... www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/hingston/hm.htm#hm11Rowena
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Post by rowena on Nov 9, 2009 4:03:05 GMT -5
Dear Folks
I'd like to cross check and confirm the Shugg research below. There are a couple of connections to a Stevens family or families. Stevens being a common name, I didn't know where to start... and hoped someone may already have relevant research.
Thomas Shugg bpt. 11 Oct 1818 (parents Thomas Jervis Shugg & Blanch Hosking) married Elizabeth 'Betsy' Bryant who was bpt. 26 Jan 1821, St Ives, parents Thomas Bryant & Ann (this is an IGI member submitted record & I'd like to confirm if possible). Thomas Shugg & Betsy Bryant married on 20 April 1843, St Ives. Their children were: 1. Thomas born Apr-Jun 1843, St Ives (emig to Oz. & married Jane Ball); 2. Blanch Shugg, born Oct-Dec 1844 St. Ives (married Richard Bottrell Jan-Mar 1868, Penzance Reg. Dist); 3. William Bryant Shugg, born Apr-June 1846 St. Ives; 4. Charles Shugg, born Oct-Dec 1850 St. Ives (emig to Oz & then NZ) Married a Mary Jane Stevens in 1879, Auckland, NZ. Met on the ship to NZ. She was born c.1861, parents Thomas Stevens & Mary Linskett; 5. Eliza Ann Shugg born Jan-Mar 1853 St Ives (could'nt find a marriage. reputed cook for Queen Victoria).
Wanting to confirm William Bryant Shugg and his descendants. He married Mary Stevens (born ?) Jul-Sep 1870, Penzance Reg. Dist. Their children were: 1. Mary Stevens Shugg born Oct-Dec 1874, Penzance Reg. Dist. (married Samuel Kemp by Banns, on 7 Feb 1897, St Ives). 2. Eliza Thomas Shugg born 23 Apr 1887 & bpt. 25 Apr 1890, St Ives (couldn't find a marriage or death). 3. Bryant Shugg born 18 Nov 1889 & bpt. 25 Apr 1890, St Ives. (He is listed under Bryant Shugg, entering the USA through Ellis Island, New York at age 19, in 1909 residence; St Hesform?, England) Died in Michigan USA 1971.
Looks like William Bryant Shugg married again to Jane Stevens (born?) Apr-June 1892, Penzance reg. Dist. Their children were: 1. William Bryant Stevens Shugg, born Apr-Jun 1913, Penzance Reg District. 2. Maurice George Shugg born Jan-Mar 1901, Newton Abbot Reg Dist., Devon. Lived in Mevagissey & Oz, & returned to Cornwall, marrying late in life to a Janet. 3. Janet (Nettie) Shugg born Jul-Sep 1907, Penzance Reg. District. Married William James Paynter Uren, emigrated to West Australia. 4. Mary Stevens Shugg born Jul-Sep 1909, Penzance Reg. District.
Once again, thank you for your time and effort in any research done. Kind regards, Rowena
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2009 7:17:55 GMT -5
Rowena - the baptism for Betsy is correct as per the CFHS baptisms and she was baptised as 'Betsy'.
IGI shows the marriage for her parents although it does not appear in the transcript I usually work from which I know has other marriages missing.
However it does appear in what I believe to be a CFHS marriage index that I obtained some years ago:-
Thomas BRYANT married Ann JENNINGS 26th June 1819 at Lelant
Determing other children from this marriage might be difficult as there was another Thomas Bryant married in 1827 at St Ives to Ann Jacobs.
However from the 1841 Census it appears Thomas Bryant was born sometime between 1796 and 1801.
He also used the name 'Major' in naming two of his daughters - Catherine Major Bryant and Margaret Major Bryant.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 9, 2009 8:23:04 GMT -5
I don't have any further detail on births/baptisms for any of these and I had not pursued marriages. But here is the marriage for the parents of Mary Jane Stevens:- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Dec 1855 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LINSKIT Mary Penzance 5c 501 STEVENS Thomas Penzance 5c 501 So at least we know she was probably born in Cornwall. This marriage was not at St Ives and I have not had time to put any work into finding just where it might have been in the Penzance area. And this is probably the birth being the only one for that name between 1859 and 1862 in the Penzance R.D.:- Surname First name(s) District Vol Page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Births Sep 1861 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- STEVENS Mary Jane Penzance 5c 309 Something that may be useful - I just had a look at IGI for baptisms for Mary Linskit and found that there are only four entries for the name in Cornwall. All are at Ludgvan - 1759, 1763, 1799 and 1830 with the latter most likely to be the mother of Mary Jane. Mary d/o John and Margaret Linskitt bp. 21st November 1830 at Ludgvan John LINSKET married Margaret CHELEW 4th June 1825 at Ludgvan That would suggest the marriage of Thomas Stevens may have occurred at Ludgvan. The 1861 Census adds more. 1861 Ludgvan Manwinnion Thomas STEVENS, head, mar., 28, tin miner, Madron Mary do., wife, mar., 28, Ludgvan Thomas H do., son, 4, Ludgvan James do., son, 2, Ludgvan Mary do., daur., 1 month, Ludgvan Margaret LINSKET, widow, 62, nurse, Ludgvan Mary Jane Stevens d/o Thomas and Mary baptised 19th May 1861 at Ludgvan There is part of that problem solved I think. CT
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