And she's back again with another query...determined to nail this St Ives lot.
Many thanks Londoner and CT for your prompt and helpful responses with Humphry and his antecedents.
Now I'm looking for to clarify some Shugg wives and children:
Family 1: John Shugg and Hannah Hawking (perhaps Hocking) married 28 July 1840, Crowan. John was bapt 30 June 1811, St Ives, parents William Jarvis Shugg & Hannah Freeman. But who was Hannah Hawking? 1851 Census lists her as Hannah J., age 34, born St Ives, and daughter named Hannah Hocking. Are there any possible Hawking baptisms in St Ives? I did find an Ann J. Hocking bapt 9 Sep 1813, Falmouth to parents Francis and Ann Hocking. Not exactly St Ives - what do you think - wild goose chase? Their children were: 1. John Shugg born Jul - Sep 1845, St Ives. Possible marriage to Elizabeth Mary Dale 1876, Bow, Middlesex, and died 1876, Bow, Middlesex. 2. Hannah Hawking Shugg born Oct - Dec 1849, St Ives. She married Apr – Jun 1885, St Ives, to Thomas Price Goodman. Both buried Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives. 3. James Shugg born Oct - Dec 1854, St Ives, buried 4 December 1920, Barnoon Cemetery, St Ives. I think that's all the children....Would love to find baptisms for these 3.
Family 2: Samuel Shugg bapt. 26 May 1799, St Ives married Sarah (Sally) James Nicholas, born abt 1795, Marazion. Married 15 Dec 1817, St Ives. Any help with her birth/bapt. and paretns would be fantastic.
John Shugg Bapt. 1825 St Ives. He died age 79, Apr – Jun 1904, St Germans Registration District. Married Margaret Ann Thomas Married: 30 June 1850, St Ives. (have her bapt & parentage) Children of John Shugg and Margaret Thomas: 6. John Thomas Shugg born Oct – Dec 1850, Redruth Reg. District (baptism?) 6. Margaret Shugg bapt. 15 Feb 1852, St Ives 6. Mary Sarah Shugg born Jul – Sep 1853, Penzance Reg. District (baptism?) 6. Rachel Thomas Shugg bapt. 2 September 1855, Phillack 6. Elizabeth Ann Shugg bapt. 22 Feb 1857, Phillack, and died age 3 mths, buried 23 April 1857, Phillack. 6. Elizabeth Shugg born Apr - Jun 1861 Penzance Reg. Dist. (baptism?) 6. Samuel Shugg born 31 January 1865, bapt. 10 May 1865 Zennor Parish, residence Hayle. 6. John Thomas Shugg born 1850, Redruth District. He died age 43, Oct – Dec 1893 St Germans Reg. District. (birth or baptism?) He married Eliza Reed born Oct – Dec 1847, Sithney to father Nicholas Reed, baker, and Amelia Bawden. They married 7 November 1874, Phillack, Cornwall. Daughter of John and Eliza: Mary Sarah Shugg born Jul – Sep 1853, Penzance Reg. District. Is there a birth or baptism date for her? I have all their other children.
Many thanks for your time in checking this material, Kind regards, Rowena
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 17, 2009 8:41:59 GMT -5
Hi Rowena - another difficult name!
But who was Hannah Hawking?
This can appear as HAWKING, HOCKING, HOCKEN, HOCKIN, HAWKEN and probably a couple of others.
A check of later Census records would be a good idea to check that the same birthplace is recorded each time but the most likely at the moment:-
Hannah d/o John (shipwright) and Hannah HOCKING bp. 15th May 1817 St Ives
No middle initial but that does not necessarily mean much.
John HAWKING married Hannah HAIN 23rd May 1813 St Ives
But now a QUESTION - where did you get the information that this marriage occurred at CROWAN?
From St Ives Marriages:-
28 Jul 1840 by Banns John Shugg of full age bachelor Mason of St. Ives (Father: William Shugg, Mason) Hannah Hawking of full age spinster of St. Ives (Father: John Hawking, Shipwright) Witnesses: John Hawking Senr., James Docton, John Hawking Jur.
So you can take the baptism information as being correct.
I will check your other requests and post a separate note.
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 17, 2009 9:12:46 GMT -5
Rowena - no luck with baptisms for the children of John and Hannah as my resources do not cover that particular period at St IVes. (Also nothing found online.)
Sarah James Nicholas - the only possibility I can find at the moment:-
Sarah d/o Joan Nicholas bp. 29th January 1797 at Ludgvan
According to the 1851 Census she was born at Ludgvan so this is the only one close. Nothing found yet to indicate who the reputed father might have been.
Baptisms for children of John and Margaret Shugg (not necessarily in order):-
Mary Sarah d/o John (carter) and Margaret Shugg of St Ives bp. 25th December 1853 at Zennor
Elizabeth d/o John (carter) and Margaret Shugg of Hayle bp. 16th March 1862 at Zennor
Unable to find a baptism for John Thomas Shugg.
He married Eliza Reed born Oct – Dec 1847, Sithney to father Nicholas Reed, baker, and Amelia Bawden. They married 7 November 1874, Phillack, Cornwall. Daughter of John and Eliza: Mary Sarah Shugg born Jul – Sep 1853, Penzance Reg. District. Is there a birth or baptism date for her?
Yes, Hannah Hawking Shugg's birth place is consistently referred to in all Census up to 1891 at St Ives. Yes I've noticed the issues with this name. Did an IGI search on her father, and... decided my computer injury would probaably start to flare up with all the mouse clicking! Many thanks for finding her. She and Sarah/Sally Nicholas have been in my 'too hard' basket for ages. Re the Crowan mistake, some of my material has come form another Shugg researcher, who does have typing mistakes, and the odd mix-up, so that's why I keep on cross-checking! Love to correct the errors.
Sarah/Sally shows Marazion on all census records, but one, and ends up living with her brother's family (all born Marazion), and she dies there, so I think I became a bit inflexible on that one, and stopped looking sideways... I think you have probably solved that one also. We can't ever know the reasons for the inconsistencies in census records, but there are lots of them, accents, dementia, hiding the illegal 2nd wife, ...who knows. Apologies on the doubling up of Mary sarah - my cut and paste error.
Haine site looks correct. Re: Thomas Shugg born c.1810. I've not found a baptism, but not uncommon amongst the Shugg's. There are 3 potential sets of parents for Thomas in Gwinear, but first 2 have their Thomas' born prior to 1800. Thomas's brother William also married a Bowden sister. As, they have a full date for the marriage of Thomas to Mary Bowden, I presume they have worked from a marriage record, which would note the father's. So, yes, I think this is pretty accurate, but for the incomplete set of Thomas' siblings. Havn't anything much to add, not much info in census. He was a copper miner, resident in Fraddam, 1851 C.
Thank you for Gervas, yes had him. He was bapt. 1660 and married a Mary in Jan 1684/85, Gwinear.
Time to sign off. Can barely see the screen with tiredness. Rowena (who owns a soccer mad schnauzer)
I'm tracking through a humungus word doc I've been constructing on the St Ives Shugg's (as I get some time) and will post queries where I'm suspicious or don't have clear information. And...I've got a couple more, so happy to hear from anyone who has some time...
Baptism and marriage confirmation needed on: Nancy Shugg (Known as Mary?) Baptism: 5 March 1809 St Ives, parents William Jarvis Shugg and Hannah Freeman. Died 2 Mar 1962, Helston, age 53 yrs. All of the Census records have her as Mary. +married Joseph Davey, Born c.1807 Gerrans (no baptism found, checked non-conforming and strays on Gerrans OPC site). Married: 6 September 1829 in St Ives, (spelt Davy – St Ives Marriage CD) (This marriage is for a Mary Shugg). 51, 61, 71, Census consistently says birth place Gerrans/Gorran, trade miller, last residence in Penzance.
And another marriage where I'd like to find the baptism and parents for the bride. Robert Shugg married Phillipa Savage Apr- June 1844, Falmouth. The 1851, 1861 Census give Phillipa's birth as c. 1799-1801, St Ives.
Also, do you know whether 'Resuggan' is a name that is found in West Briton? I have a marriage in Victoria of a Johanna Resuggan, born c.1840 Cornwall, parents John Resuggan and Hannah Martin. Hoping you are able to solve these. Not manymysteries left to solve - promise!
I posted a Resuggan query on the Rootsweb Cornish Genealogy list and a Resuggan researcher contacted me. You were both on the money. Parents of Johanna Martins Resuggan bapt bapt 28 March 1834, St Ives were John Resuggan and Mary Anne Martins, and they had five known children, Thomas Jenkyns Resuggan (1826), John Resuggan (1828), Elizabeth Resuggan (1830), Johanna and Grace Resuggan (1834). Mother Mary Ann died while Johanna was young, so very easy for her to not have the accurate facts on her mother's name.
Re checking Falmouth - don't bother with that avenue. I've contacted the OPC already and Louise doesn't have access to the marriage register for this period. She found no corresponding baptisms in Famouth for Miss Savage, and made the point that id Phillippa was 52 yrs in 1851, then she may have been a widow when she married Robert Shugg. Good point. She suggested I get the marriage record to confirm.
Re. Mr Joseph Davey - he's trouble isn't he? Thank you for working that through a little. I'm thinking I'll contact the OPC's and see what can be turned up, and then next step is the certificate, to confirm parents.
Thank you for your help Now I'd better get back to the horrible job application... Cheers, Rowena
Here's another one. I'm hoping someone will be able to find the marriage date of Hanah Hawking Shugg and Thomas Price Goodman, married Apr-Jun 1885, Penzance Reg District.
Next a William Thomas married Elizabeth Shugg 1840 Helston. 1851 Census shows that he is born St Ives c. 1815 - any ideas on his baptism or parentage? And, if this is a foolish request without the marriage record, you're welcome to say so...
Another tricky one. Looking for a baptism for Hannah Vining born c. 1816, parents James Viney and Prudence Williams, married 1798 (Phillimores). The 1851 Census gives their birthplaces as St Ives, so I'm presuming their daughter was born in the parish as well. Hannah was married to Richard Freeman Shugg, and they were living with her parents in the 1841 C. They emigrated to South Australia on the Prince Regent from Plymouth in 1849.
Interestingly, the son of Richard Freeman Shugg and Hannah Vining, John Andrews Shugg born Jun Qtr of 1838, St Ives (baptism?) married an Elizabeth Vining born c.1831. They married in Adelaide, she was 27, and her father was given as John Vining. She was also on the Prince Regent with, I presume, her relation Hannah. I'm wondering was she a cousin, a niece of Hannah?
That's all I can find for now... (very sad humour, also very late at night here in Oz, time for snooze)