John TREWHELLA in Lelant

[chrisu]

Thought I'd put this to the expert(s). There is a John TREWHELLA died 28 Oct 1870 (age 81 from freebmd). I believe he may be John bapt Ludgvan 1790 who married Elizabeth WILLIAMS in 1816.

BUT he is commemorated on the same grave as:

Jane SIMMONS (surname unclear) for whom I have no dates or age.

Chris

[Cornish Terrier]

Nope!

The John who married Elizabeth Williams died at Penzance 14th November 1871 and was buried at Penzance 19th November 1871.

I have a copy of his Will and also have a photograph of the Headstone.

The one you mention is not included in my list of Deaths from St Catherine's House although I do now know that I missed at least a couple of entries when I searched those indexes all those years ago.

I will check my information and provide an answer in a following note.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

I now know why I did not have this John in my St Catherine's House transcript.

Because there is no John Trewhella whose death is registered in 1870.

In the December Qtr for 1871 is John Trewhella age 81 who certainly was the husband of Elizabeth Williams however his dates of death and burial (as included in my previous) are in Novermber of 1871.

Can you give me some more information on the entry you found??

e.g. Where did this death take place??

CT

[chrisu]

CT - the headstone in Lelant says thus:

John TREWHELLA died 28 October 1870 (age at death is unclear on the headstone).

On the same headstone is Jane SIMMONS (? surname but definitely Jane) no dates or age.

The grave is in the old churchyard at Lelant, indicating burial pre 1870. I assume both deaths would be Penzance district.

Chris

[chrisu]

CT - I wondered (as you probably have) if SIMMONS/SIMONS/SYMONS might be either a second forename or a maiden name but this is purely conjecture.

Chris

[Cornish Terrier]

I can find nothing I am afraid.

There was a Jane Simmons died about 1845 and another in 1873 in the Penzance R.D. but that is not much help.

And an exhaustive search of FreeBMD has produced nothing that could even be a remote match to 'John Trewhella'.

[londoner]

There was a John Simmons died Sep Quarter 1870 age 70 (PZ 5c,213) could Trewhella have been his middle name?

[Cornish Terrier]

I have no record of such and Trewhella as a middle name .............. very rare if any back around 1800 when he would have been born.

I will check it ........... but there is one rather large problem.

John Simmons death is registered in the September Quarter meaning he died long enough before the start of October for his death to be registered in that quarter.

I would suggest that means his death probably occurred around Mid-September.

But the mysterious John Trewhella died 28th October which would be at the very least one month later!!!

It is, of course, possible that an error was made by the mason when carving the stone.

Or it could be that the stone was arranged and carved some time later and the mason was given the incorrect date.

Guess I will have to hunt around and see whether there were any Trewhella/Simmons (var.) marriages that early. (I do know there were some much later on.)

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Well there was no John S_____s or John Trewhella of any description at Lelant in the 1861 Census so that is no help.

Nothing showing up in IGI that is of any help and the OPC site has no marriage for Semmens (var.)/Trewhella except for Simon Semmens and Phillis Trewhella at Ludgvan in 1754.

Just a tad too early and they were later over around St Hilary.

I am afraid the only remotely possible link I have would, apart from name, have to be considered extremely remote.

There was a John Trewhella born at Madron but baptised at Gulval 16th August 1840.

John was from the family of the elusive Henry Trewhella who married Jane Grenfell at St Just in 1803.

The entire family from Henry onwards were at St Just, Madron, Gulval or Paul.

The exceptions were James Grenfell Trewhella who earned himself a lengthy holiday in Van Diemen's Land in 1850, his uncle John Trewhella who migrated to Victoria in the late 1850's, a cousin Henry who was in the navy and died at sea about 1879 and maybe a couple of the girls.

This particular John Trewhella married Emily Semmens at Gulval in 1858.
Emily was 'of Gulval' when married but baptised at Madron as was her mother.

I know John Trewhella disappeared sometime between 1861 and the 1871 Census when Emily was recorded as a widow.

It is interesting to note that Emily's mother's name was - JANE.

So, coincidentally at the moment, we have a John Trewhella who goes missing sometime before 1871 and who just happens to have a mother-in-law named Jane Semmens.

Complicating matters is that there is no date or age associated with the Jane Simmons remembered on the same stone as this mysterious John Trewhella so it might be almost impossible to learn anything there.

But there still remain two rather large questions:-

IF this were the husband of Emily and IF this Jane Simmons just happened to be his mother-in-law - what the heck were they doing being buried in Lelant when they had spent their whole lives in the Madron/Gulval area??

AND - why is there no death record for John Trewhella in the December Qtr of 1870 and also why is it that no Trewhella researcher (including myself who has seen the Lelant PRs) never found a record of baptism??

AND just for good measure - why is it that I did not find this particular gravestone when I meticulously went through each section of the Churchyard and associate burial grounds at Lelant when I was there in 1994???!!!

CT

[chrisu]

Hi CT

IF this were the husband of Emily and IF this Jane Simmons just happened to be his mother-in-law - what the heck were they doing being buried in Lelant when they had spent their whole lives in the Madron/Gulval area??

There's always the possibility that they were COMMEMORATED on a gravestone in Lelant but died and/or were buried elsewhere. But I think we can exclude this Jane SIMMONS/SEMMENS - she appears to have been buried in Madron in 1871 (age either 73 or 76 - depending on whether you're looking at the burial transcript [OPC databse] or FreeBMD).

AND - why is there no death record for John Trewhella in the December Qtr of 1870 and also why is it that no Trewhella researcher (including myself who has seen the Lelant PRs) never found a record of baptism??

This a gravestone inscription, not a death record, remember. There is no age at death legible so locating a baptism would be difficult to say the least. Given that there are doubts about both the age at death of John T. on this gravestone and also the name and details of Jane (Simmons?) it's quite probable that the date of death (and the name) was difficult to read and therefore questionable. I'm trying to have it checked.

I do know that, because of their location, the headstones in the Lelant churchyard and burial grounds suffer more than most from deterioration, erosion and some even "sink into the sand".

AND just for good measure - why is it that I did not find this particular gravestone when I meticulously went through each section of the Churchyard and associate burial grounds at Lelant when I was there in 1994???!!!

Sorry - haven't got an answer for that one.

Don't waste any more time or grief on it until I get some kind of confirmation.

cheers chris

[Cornish Terrier]

You are right Chris and I won't lose too much sleep over it for the time being.

But - still no answer for why there is no record in FreeBMD and also no burial record for John Trewhella.

I can understand the possibility of maybe the death registration but even that must be questionable given we are talking 1870 by which time the laws had encouraged people it would be to their financial advantage to ensure BMD events were registered.

But for the event to be missing from both the Civil Registration AND the burial register ..............

[Cornish Terrier]

One more thought that is worth pursuing.

If we can find out exactly who this is we may be helping someone else who is missing a relative!

[HeatherC]

Chris & CT

One possibility, although remote one!

There may be no death record for this John Trewhella on freebmd or other England/Wales databases if he died elsewhere and the inscription is just a commemoration.

I know someone that told me of how on his great grandparents gravestone a son is mentioned that died in Spain...... But no mention that the son died and was buried there (Spain). So unless you knew, you would think the event had happened here in the UK.

And a thought.......

Also, could the name (Trewhella) be an adopted name by John himself?

Best regards
HeatherC

[Cornish Terrier]

Heather - I believe I can account for every John Trewhella (var.) for whom I have any record at all up to and including 1870.

The one exception is the man who married Emily Semmens and who I know was dead prior to the 1871 Census.

However as I explained in my post of last night there is absolutely no reason why he should be commemorated or buried at Lelant.

If it were a case of this person taking on the name for himself then he did it after 1861.

To add to the above - I don't believe I have a record of any John Trewhella (var.) dying in 1870 - anywhere.

Chris is arranging for the headstone to be rechecked but the other thing that needs to be done is for the actual Lelant PR to be checked for all burials on or within about a week of 28th October 1870.

The other option might be to see if there is any record in the newspapers but I notice that the West Briton is not currently available for that year.

If only there was some information on the headstone about Jane Simmons other than her name.