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Post by alocin66 on Aug 22, 2009 14:47:49 GMT -5
Struggling to find the parents of, or birthdate of John Nicholas, who married Anne Ash on 5.11.1798 in Sennen Please could anyone help? Regards
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Post by newlyn on Aug 22, 2009 15:59:36 GMT -5
Possible birthdates and parents of John Nicholas could be: born 2.11.1777 St Levan to parents Gregory Nicholas and Alice Simmons who married 18.10.1768 St Buryan.
OR
born 20.4.1780 St Levan to parents Michael Nicholas and Elizabeth Waters who married 13.4.1776 St Levan.
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Post by newlyn on Aug 22, 2009 16:11:20 GMT -5
On further research the John born to Michael and Elizabeth died in 1780.
That just leaves the other John for now!!!!!
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Post by alocin66 on Aug 23, 2009 0:56:34 GMT -5
Newlyn, That's great, thank you! Where did you find the info? alocin66
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 23, 2009 3:50:43 GMT -5
Afraid that burial does not really help matters. Michael and Elizabeth baptised another son named John at St Levan 4th April 1782. Will look into it. CT
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Post by newlyn on Aug 23, 2009 5:26:35 GMT -5
I had discounted Michael and Elizabeths other son John born in 1782 as I thought that could possible be that he was to young for marriage. Will have to see if there is any info on Anne Ash and how old she was at marriage.
The info has come from a subscription site.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 23, 2009 9:39:49 GMT -5
Anne ASH I now believe to have been baptised 4th November 1764 at St Just in Penwith d/o William ASH and Anne WILLIAMS who married 24th July 1763 at St Buryan.
I also believe William ASH who married Jane DELAHAY must belong to this family.
He died in 1840 at the age of 73 which places his birth about 1766 or 1767.
Although I have not been able to find a baptism for him this certainly seems to be his family.
With Anne born in 1764 it explains why there were only three children from the marriage to John NICHOLAS as she would have been 34 when she married.
I believe she will be the Anne NICHOLAS of St Levan, age 62, buried at Sennen 29th January 1828.
And I seem to have exhausted possibilities for John NICHOLAS.
He would appear most likely to be the following:-
John NICHOLAS of Escalls, age 85, buried 2nd September 1861 at Sennen.
That would make him the son of Gregory and Alice.
In the 1841 Census John was living at Trevorian, Sennen. The only other person in the household was Ann ELLIS age 30 who was recorded as 'female servant'.
In 1851 John's age was recorded as 70 and he was living at Carlidga, Sennen.
Again the only other person in the household was Nanny ELLIS his housekeeper age 42.
So it appears John married a woman 13 years his senior!
BTW - in 1851 John's stated birthplace was St Levan
In 1861 John was at Escalls, Sennen and this time stated his age as 84 - but his birthplace is given as Sennen!
Ann Ellis is still his housekeeper and had been born at Sennen about 1808.
She would be Nancy d/o Thomas and Anne Ellis bp. 29th January 1808 at Sennen.
CT
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Post by newlyn on Aug 23, 2009 9:48:11 GMT -5
I've come up with the same information.
Ann married her toy-boy!
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Post by alocin66 on Aug 23, 2009 9:58:41 GMT -5
Well, well, well!
CT fantastic work - I was wondering about the Anne/William Ash connection. Could it be that Anne's son John and William's daughter Jane are cousins? Was that a common practice in the 18/19th centuries?
I have three chldren of Anne's - Anne bp 2.8.1799, John b.2.7.1805, and Mary bp5.5.1807 .
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 23, 2009 10:00:11 GMT -5
Oh well - no TV to keep her amused I suppose! Would like some more proof but this certainly looks the most likely scenario. I have updated my database accordingly.
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Post by newlyn on Aug 23, 2009 10:08:11 GMT -5
Anne Ash b.1764
Grandfather was a Dionysius Williams.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 23, 2009 11:26:50 GMT -5
Sorry but I must disagree! Dionysius Williams married Ann Probus 14th October 1744 at Falmouth He had four children before Ann died in 1754 and he then married Rebecca Belman at Helston 2nd September 1755 with one further child ensuing. Margery bp. 29th June 1745 Sennen (bu. 7th December 1767) ANN bp. 29th November 1746 Sennen (bu. 15th September 1750) Dionysius bp. 17th September 1748 (m. Ann Quick at Zennor in 1774) ANNE born 8th May 1751 (bp. 22nd June 1751 Sennen) Rebecca bp. 7th January 1756 Sennen So you see the first Ann died when she was four and would have been 16 if she had married William Ash. The second Ann would only have been 12! So we need to look further to find the correct parents for Ann Williams. CT
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Post by newlyn on Aug 23, 2009 12:31:23 GMT -5
Are you sure it was Ann b.1946 who died.
Can't see anybody else who matches!
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Post by alocin66 on Aug 23, 2009 14:03:09 GMT -5
Newlyn, I think you may be right - two sources give both girls name as Ann - no 'e'. Could be a typo though!
Maybe Ann b. 8.5.1751, bp 22.6.51 then buried 15.9.51.
Hopefully there may be another source to check it with. What do you think CT?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Aug 24, 2009 9:34:28 GMT -5
Don't be concerned about ANN vs ANNE. You will often find examples of a child baptised as ANN and then married as ANNE. Just as you will find someone baptised as 'Jenifer' and then married or having children as 'Jane'. The 'E' is of little consequence. What is of consequence is that Dionysius Williams baptised two daughters with the name of Ann(e) and one of them did not survive. I have had another look at the original PR Transcript that my data came from and find that it was actually a little confusing. I misinterpreted the year of burial as 1750 when it should have been 1751. This was because of the way the information was recorded at the time labelling the year as 1750-1. So the burial is actually after the birth/baptism date of the second Ann which would seem to cause a problem. However one possible answer is available. (Although not necessarily correct.) There may have been an inheritance involved here with a bequest to daughter Ann. This could have been as a 'life' on a property or it may have been something else. So we should consider the possibility that first daughter Ann is ailing and not expected to live. Another daughter is born and baptised as Ann so as to retain the 'inheritance' and then the first Ann duly passes on. I have certainly seen at least one Will where this was the case although there was no actual overlap of the children involved. However I have seen three sons given the same name in the one family because of the contents of a Will or a Lease. And I have seen more than one instance of two sons in the one family bearing the same name and both surviving. The Will of Thomas Curnow is an example where he clearly names sons John the elder and John the younger. We are also not certain that the wife of William Ash was born/baptised at St Buryan. She could have been from anywhere and it is always possible that her baptism was missed in the PR or is unreadable.
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