MARTIN(S) of Towednack

[Cornish Terrier]

Rowena - it has been a bit of a long haul but I am getting there.

With two families of David and Mary Martins to sort out there have been challenges but I at least have that part sorted.

There are other connections involved as well with one of the Nicholls families being prominent at the moment.
This one is especially interesting to me given the later Trewhella connections in South Dakota.

I think the next marriage on my agenda is that of Thomas Grenfell and, if it is possible, I will get some answers to you tonight.

In reality it probably won't be until tomorrow.

But I will get there!

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Mary Ann Martins and Thomas Grenfell had a daughter Emily born 1851. I've not found a baptism for her. Would you be able to check this. (There were 2 Emily Grenfell births registered for Penzance in 1851)

Rowena - I just looked at FreeBMD and for 1850 and 1851 I can find only ONE Emily Grenfell birth.

She was registered in the March Qtr which fits quite neatly with the daughter of Thomas and Mary Ann who was age 1 month at the time of the 1851 Census which was taken on March 30th.

Now for the brief picture of where Emily and her mother fit in.

Mary Ann Martins was baptised 18th January 1829 at Towednack daughter of David and Mary. (I now know that this was Mary Carbis.)

David Martins married Mary CARBIS 12th March 1814 at Towednack and had seven children of whom Mary Ann was the youngest.

David Martins was baptised 26th December 1791 at Ludgvan (born 11th December 1791) son of David and Elizabeth (nee NINNES) who were married 5th December 1789 at Towednack.

I am not sure about Mary Carbis as yet. According to Census records she was born about 1788 at Towednack yet the closest baptism I can find at Towednack in 1786 daughter of Christopher and Ann.

I still have bits and pieces to complete with these families but if there are specific things you want to know then just ask.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Perhaps someone else has already sorted this but because I just worked it out for myself I am going to lay claim to having 'delicately damaged' another Martins Brick Wall!

For years I could not work out why Arthur Martins was enumerated with Charity Martins at Ludgvan in the 1841 Census.

After all - he was the son of John and Catherine Martins of Towednack and his baptism can be found in the CFHS Index as occurring 3rd July 1818 at Towednack.

In later times (1851 Census) he says he was born at Ludgvan but it is not unusual to see a Ludgvan birth followed by a Towednack baptism and vice versa.

But Arthur had company that day in July as, presumably his cousin, William son of James and Charity Martins was also baptised on the 3rd at Towednack.

All clearly recorded in the CFHS index:-

Arthur son of John (carpenter) and Catherine Martins baptised 3rd July 1818
William son of James (miner) and Charity Martins baptised 3rd July 1818

Can't go wrong.

Or can you!

When Arthur was married at Ludgvan 5th February 1842 he stated that his father was JAMES MARTIN, miner

Well ..... we have had quite a bit of experience with this sort of thing now and it is obvious that Arthur (or someone) got it wrong.

A bit like George Quick who said he was son of George when in fact it turned out that he was really the son of William!

But WHY was Arthur with Charity in 1841?

Now ................... it was when I noticed that Arthur and William were baptised on the same day that a little tapping began on the inside of my scone and as I don't have any aspirin in the house I had to seek out another method to subdue the headache that was rapidly forming!

I checked the baptisms again and, sure enough, all was as I had seen before.

So the next logical step was to see if perhaps William might still be alive and if he also got hitched.

The OPC list of marriages for William Martins produced an interesting looking one at Towednack which would have been around the right time so a bo-peep at the complete record was obviously in order!

UH-OH!!

Wm MARTINS of full age, blacksmith of Towednack, son of JOHN MARTINS, joiner married Eliza BENNETS of full age, spinster of Towednack, 31st May 1840 at Towednack

A quick check of the 1851 Census showed William Martins (now a tin dresser) living at Amalveor with wife Eliza and several children.

He was age 32 and born at Towednack.

Hmmm ..... same age as Arthur in the same Census!

And one of his daughters was named Catherine P Martins. I would be guessing that her full name was Catherine PENBERTHY Martins with Catherine Penberthy being the wife of John Martins.

It would appear that the game of SWAP THE BABY was alive and well in 1818!

But who do we blame for this mess?

Having not seen the entry myself in the original register I am loathe to blame the CFHS transcriber.

And the only alternative is that the details of the two baptisms were incorrectly entered way back in 1818.

Whichever way it happened I have no solved the mystery that has been annoying me for a great many years. ;D

Arthur was the son of James and Charity
William was the son of John and Catherine

And now, once I have tidied up this little mess in the database, I might have another crack at identifying Arthur's father James!

CT

[davidkingmartin]

James Martin(s) 1774-1831,father of Arthur,is also the father of Joseph Martin 1815-1867, my gggfather.
The Towednack records (on-line) do not give us a complete record for the second decade of the 1800s.
Joseph died Ludgvan.
David.

[Cornish Terrier]

David - I am still not comfortable with identifying the husband of Charity Carbis as son of Richard and Grace.

If you have some that positively identifies him as such (e.g. a Will) I would be extremely interested as it will impact on a number of the other Martins families.

But we currently have Richard and Grace Berryman with two sons named James - one baptsed 1770 and the second in 1774 - yet no burial has been found for the first of these.

The James Martins buried at Ludgvan in 1831 is recorded as aged 59 which puts his birth around 1772 and, therefore, right in between the two above.

We know that the age recorded at death or burial can be notoriously inacurrate but let's begin with believing what is written and work from there.

The reason I stress this is because of the James Martins who married Margaret Berryman given that he was still alive in 1841 when his age was recorded as 65.

Allowing for the rounding of ages he could have been born sometime between 1771 and 1776 and is thus another strong possibility to have been the son of Richard and Grace.

This James however begins with a child named Sarah and does not have a son named Richard and that makes me sceptical.

On the other hand James and Charity had FOUR sons before they used the name Richard - and that also makes me a little sceptical.

There is also the problem of the James Martins buried at Ludgvan in 1833.

By his age of 72 he should have been born about 1760 or 1761 yet I cannot find a possible candidate in the vicinity of Towednack or Ludgvan.

There is a lot about these Martins that we do not yet know and I have to suspect interaction from elsewhere.

I am certainly not prepared as yet to take things at face value when there are so many conflicts.

CT

[davidkingmartin]

CT: No. I have no Will for James.
1841 Census: Joseph Martin (1815) is with Charity aged 65 and others in the household incl.Arthur aged 18 (1818)...but no relationships given in 1841 Census.
I believe Charity`s husband died 1831.
The Grace in my database is Grace UREN 1739,mother of James Martin(s) 30 Jan.1774 Towednack.
I am open to "correction"!

David

[Cornish Terrier]

David - I had been hoping that being able to sort out the two families of David and Mary Martins I would find it much easier to sort out the problem of James and Charity.

Unfortunately it is not the case.

But at least I have been successful with the two Davids which is something that had been bugging me for years.

I am going to have to put a lot of study into the situation of James Martins.
It is very obvious that there is something not right but I cannot find the key piece that is incorrect.

Maybe it will be a case of disassociating each of the married James Martins from any family and looking at each of them separately again.

I do have much more available now in the way of resources so maybe I can turn something up that might help if I dig deep enough.

CT

[londoner]

Ct asked : But who do we blame for this mess?

the answer, having checked the fiche is the curate Rob. Peter - the entries are perfectly clear as quoted!

[Cornish Terrier]

Thanks Londoner - I sort of suspected that might be the case which is why I was loathe to blame the transcriber!

Seems it was a bit hard to get good help back then also! ;D

At least we now know that they were entered incorrectly and the two marriage records help to set things right.

CT