Checked through some of my old notes and was struck again by the name
Sybella Hughes Johns daughter of Thomas Coke Johns and Susannah Goodson, a sister of Dinah Trewheellar nee Goodson.
I had notes on the Trewheellar-Hughes association and your earlier additions to this thread started me off again to fill in a few gaps instead of working on Trewheellar maritime history. Other female members of this family have, as second names, the maiden names of the various mothers and grandmothers. Hughes is the odd one out.
The Goodson's are
Ann (?died young) Henry (cordwainer in London, 1841 census ?unmarried, then living in Charles Johns's house with nephew Frederick, Charles's son) Dinah Teresa m. Thomas (snr) Trewheellar Temperence m. John Acton Boden (you will recognise this surname in the NZ Trewheellar descendents, and the Charles Johns descendents) (There is a possibility that a Boden married a sister of Charles - but I think that researcher got it wrong - it was JAB and Charles's sister-in-law) Susanna m. Thomas Cope Johns Elizabeth m. Charles Johns (not a brother, but may be a relation of TCJ) John Edward (no data on him)
The key happening is that Thomas Cope Johns married Susanna Goodson in St Petersburg in 1821, and two children were born there, one (Thomas Cope (jnr)) is buried there (I have copies of the church records). The family returned to London by 1827 where Sybella Hughes J. and her siblings were born. In the period 1770-1840 there were about 10 Hughes's in St Petersburg in what appears to be two families. How they fit with the Hughes known to be associated with the Trewheellar line is not yet sorted - it is at least one generation later. Both Johns and the Hughes names remained in Russia at least to 1919, but how they are related I have no idea - yet. Thomas Coke Johns was a printer in London - I have yet to find out what he did in St Petersburg. There is also a Richard Johns, another printer in London, born - guess where - Cornwall.
Kirrill - what are the transliterations of "Johns" and "Hughes" - you could well have these too as distant relations, back in Russia?
Now the son of JA Boden, Henry, married his cousin Sybella Johns (d. of TC) - The beginning of an interesting line in California.
the son of Thomas (snr) T, Thomas (jnr) married his cousin Elizabeth Johns (d. of CJ) - The NZ/Oz lot Elizabeth's brother, Samuel, probably went to USA in 1880's (?descendents in US Navy WW2?)
Martha Ann T (Thomas's sister) also emigrated to NZ with the Johns's
Nicholas T (?Thomas T's second cousin, once removed???) married Sarah Jane Hughes - the Russian family.
With these intermarriages and with permanent or temporary residencies in Russia, California, NZ, Australia, Rhodesia, Borneo, Norway and Canada, and huge naval tradition in the Trewheellar and Charles Johns lines it is no wonder that these families are a mixed up lot and everywhere!
NB the von Veynam name is quite famous in its continental spelling Weyman - the English always get it wrong as the W is pronouced as a V.
Is our Dinah Trewheellar the one who died in Lancashire in 1835?
This is where it's at for me - midnight plus - again - more late nights in the future I guess!
Back to Richard T. and Martha Snow. An early version of the T-tree (1980's) has these children
Martha b. ? c. 1785 and married a Clarke John Simon b 1788 Thomas b. about 1794
the later version has
John Simon c 27/3/1786 Martha Tremeling c 27/5/1787, bur. 2/11/1791 in Stoke Damerel Ann c. 31/1/1790 Thomas b about 1794.
Given that there are some gaps which could easily be filled by further children are we here looking at children who have been given the same name of those who have died young? I think the first data set came from Thurston T. who went through the actual records in the ?1960's.
Post by Cornish Terrier on May 16, 2009 18:52:22 GMT -5
To my knowledge there were only four children to Richard and Martha - at least that is all I have ever been able to find record of with no baptism being located for Thomas.
Richard TRUEWHEELER married Martha SNOW 24th July 1784 at St Gluvias (Reference Bishop's Transcripts)
John baptised 27th March 1786 St Gluvias (Bishop's Transcripts)
Martha Tremeling baptised 27th May 1787 St Gluvias (Bishop's Transcripts)
Ann baptised 31st January 1790 Stoke Damerel, Devon (Stoke Damerel Parish Register)
Thomas - no baptism found
Martha Tremeling was buried at Stoke Damerel 2nd November 1791 age 4 years 6 months (Stoke Damerel Parish Register)
I have personally seen these Registers so the above information is accurate.
The reference to a marriage to CLARK comes from information supplied to either Thurston or my uncle Ben Trewhella many years ago by Nicholas Trewheler and mentions that Ann married a man named Clark in Russia.
Apart from the marriages of John and Thomas and later information we have that is all I know about the immediate family and I have certainly seen no evidence of further children.
I have so far not found burials for Richard or Martha either so that is another item on the 'search list'.
I also have no idea as to how the name 'Simon' came to be associated with John.
I can take the family back a lot further although the project of reviewing and confirming all that data is not yet done so I am a little wary of it with the possibilities of errors I have not yet detected.
I do know that Richard was baptised at Kenwyn 18th October 1761 (IGI).
Parents were William TREWHELA who married Elizabeth TREMELLEN of Kea at Kenwyn 23rd February 1754.
From the work I have done over the years I am of the opinion that William married three times and had a total of 14 children.
Beyond that I really need to carefully re-check all my data given the amount of new PR information I now have available.
FYI - the other wives of William:-
William TREUHELAR married Elizabeth JAMES 28th December 1773 at Kenwyn
William TREWHELAR married Catherine TRUSCOTT 5th May 1781 at Kenwyn
Notice that the spelling of the name kept changing and also notice that he was never referred to as a widower.
However I do have burials for each of his first two wives and then Catherine, the third, remarried after William died.
Many thanks for confirmation of the data and their references.
Had a look through my database of 28,000 passengers on ships coming to NZ. Sorted out all, those who gave the home county as Cornwall and about 240 popped out. Names, and ages, occupations are available for many and of course their ship & dates of departure and arrival in NZ. Where would be a suitable place to put these so that they would be available to members of the forum? (pass this to a moderator if need be)
I can now confirm that Katherine Trewheler/Truveller b. 1886, probably in Reval, and sister of Vladimir who was KIA on the Oslyabya in the battle of Tsushima, is the same Katherine that went from Reval to, I think, Vladivostok to nurse the wounded. I wonder how she got there? She was a nurse of the Sisters of Mercy. She was later in Harbin (early 1920's?), and of course in Oslo in 1937. I also wonder if she went to Oslo to nurse her mother who died aged 81 in 1926, and stayed on until she decided to join her unmarried brother Nicholas and sister Elizabeth Nicolaevna von Weymarn there. Anatole's letters written in the 1930's are rather thin on detail and his memory may have been slipping.
I have asked a friend in Calgary to track down some obits etc. We need to know the date of her arrival in Canada and what she did there until her death in 1954.
What a real shame that there is no detailed interview .......
Have also finished writing up Thomas (jnr) Trewhellar's NZ sojourn. Start on his OZ bit soon. Do you have his obit -d. Picton, Sydney 14/3/1889?
Great to fit in another person and perhaps get a lead on some as yet unknown details.
John Simon T. aka Ivan Rodionovich, was still in Tula 1845-54. He refurbished the Tula armoury after the 1834 fire. Was it the recognition of this (as a retirement perk perhaps) that he became the clockwinder in the Czar's palace or is this a family myth? Kirill - is Rodionovich the Russian form of Simon (the son of)?
re Martha Snow - Wife of Richard T.
There are several "Snows" also in St Petersburg and I had the thought the she might be a sister of Elizabeth (born ?) who married George Holliday (b. Newcastle on Tyne) in British Chapel, St Petersburg 14/12/1791. Elisabeth (on 9/11/1831) and George (date?) died and are buried in St Petersburg (67 J and 82 J St P. Cemetery respectively).
Kirill - how could these death and burial data be confirmed? Would there be any further data in relevent archives?
Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 2, 2009 5:27:52 GMT -5
NZJohn1 - I have no record of a sister Elizabeth for Martha Snow.
But that does not mean there was not a sister of that name.
I have not yet found a marriage for her parents but I believe they were Abraham SNOW and Martha KENT.
Children found so far:-
James bp. 21st November 1762 St Gluvias m. Catherine TREVENA 5th July 1785 St Gluvias Martha bp. 9th December 1764 St Gluvias m. Richard Truewheeler 24th July 1784 St Gluvias Abraham bp. 13th March 1767 St Gluvias m. Catherine ?? Anne bp. 30th January 1770 St Gluvias m. James PITAWAY 28th October 1795 St Gluvias William bp. 23rd May 1773 St Gluvias Mary Kent bp. 8th September 1776 St Gluvias
The name MARTHA KENT is very much speculation at the moment.
The Christian name is certainly Martha but it is the surname that is in question however it can be guessed with reasonable probability.
James and Catherine named daughters Martha Kent and Sarah Kent Snow and Abraham and Martha used the name Mary Kent.