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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 8, 2009 6:27:45 GMT -5
A new site I was only informed of today ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/homeI have just had a very quick look at it and many of you may find it interesting and useful given the amount of Cornish people who came to Australia. CT
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Post by HeatherC on Apr 8, 2009 9:39:50 GMT -5
Three guesses what I shall be looking through these next couple of days ;D Thanks for the site CT Best regards HeatherC
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oz
Noweth
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Post by oz on Aug 23, 2009 23:07:44 GMT -5
Hi CT This site is fantastic. Will give it a closer look. Thanks oz
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jmg
Ysel
Posts: 55
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Post by jmg on Sept 7, 2009 1:14:12 GMT -5
CT
Thanks for the great site.
I have just spent the last week following the antics of my gg parents. (non Cornish).
Will spend a few more weeks checking out others in my tree.
Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 7, 2009 1:18:24 GMT -5
Glad it's of help to you Jenny. You might have to tell us a little about some of these 'antics'. CT
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jmg
Ysel
Posts: 55
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Post by jmg on Sept 7, 2009 1:28:14 GMT -5
These antics were of a domestic criminal nature. It was a good way of trying to keep track of them. The whole problem with them is that I don't know where they were born, when the died or how they got to Australia, but I do know that they had a lot of domestic arguments during the 1860's.
Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 7, 2009 8:35:25 GMT -5
Jenny - give me a few names and other details and I will have a look around for you.
CT
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jmg
Ysel
Posts: 55
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Post by jmg on Sept 8, 2009 22:27:46 GMT -5
Thanks CT for the offer.
Here is the information I have on Philip Neal/Neil and Mary Kelly.
No. 1385 – Philip Neal, bachelor and Mary Kelly, spinster married in this Church by Banns this ?April 1850 by Augustus Strong. In Melbourne. (doesn't state which church).
Children – Johanna 1850, Mary 1852, Phillip 1854/1854, Elizabeth 1856, Thomas 1857 (G Grandfather who married Selina Davies/Davis), Louisa 1859, Sophia 1863/1947, Margaret 1865, Charlotte 1867/1868
Found death of Sophia in 1947. States parents as Phillip Neil and Mary Neil formally Kelly. She was unmarried and died aged 83 on 2 Jan 1947
Thomas Neal info. Birth 11th June 1857. Parents Philip Neal, Labourer, 30, London, England, Mary Neal, formally Kelly 25, Wexford (?), Ireland. Death 1934 - Parents Phillip Neil and Mary Neil (maiden Name unknown) He was 78. I have a some information on Thomas and his family.
I haven’t been doing much work on this side of the family since I found the Penwith site, but you renewed my interest with the Australian Newspaper site. Thanks
Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 9, 2009 1:13:56 GMT -5
I will have a look and see what I can find for you Jenny. First thing I can tell you is where Philip and Mary were married. According to the Pioneers Index they were married at St James Church of England, Melbourne. From the Melways it would St James Old Cathedral on the corner of King St and Batman St, Melbourne. Let's see what more I can find. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 9, 2009 1:30:42 GMT -5
Jenny - there is not much in IGI but (although it states in 1857 his birthplace was London) this one could be worth thinking about given Philip used both names for his children:- Philip NEALE bp. 8th August 1833 Lyndhurst, Hampshire (born 2nd March 1828 There is another baptised in 1829 in Wiltshire son of Philip and Elizabeth. Anyway - this is just a little playing around while I think of options to look at. Jenny - what is the last record you have of Philip and Mary??? I presume it would be from the newspapers but it might be something to give me some more clues. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 9, 2009 2:56:52 GMT -5
Jenny - here are a few possibilities for Philip Neal's arrival.
Passenger arrivals at Port Phillip 1839-1851
Thomas NEAL and Mary and family arrived aboard the 'Andromache' in 1849 - Reel 2145, [4/4817] Page 43
William NEAL and family arrived aboard the 'Tasman' in 1849 - Reel 2145, [4/4817] Page 6
James NEALE and Mary and family arrived aboard the 'Ferguson' in 1841 - Reel 2143A, [4/4813] Page 90
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 9, 2009 4:00:28 GMT -5
I forgot to mention that these records are from State Records NSW.
The last two I can find that might be possibilities:-
James NEIL and Ellen and family arrived on the 'Manlius' in 1842 - Reel 2144, [4/4814] Page 243
James NEIL and Sarah and family arrived on the 'England' in 1841 - Reel 2143A, [4/4813] Page 178
CT
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jmg
Ysel
Posts: 55
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Post by jmg on Sept 10, 2009 2:04:40 GMT -5
CT,
The last date of have for Philip and Mary is the death of their last child – Charlotte died 1868. (I think she was born 1867)
In regards to the Newspapers. Last report for Philip was 1867.
Last report for Mary Neil was 1871 - Mary Neil was sent to prison for three months on a charge of vagrancy, and her four children were sent to the Industrial Schools. There is a Mary Neil in prison in 1879 she was a witness to the death of her cell mate.
The only ages I have are on the birth certificate of Thomas. Philip was 30 which would make him 23 when he married in 1850 and Mary was 25, which would have made her 18 in 1850.
There is a Philip Neal on the England & Wales, Criminal Register 1791 – 1892. He was convicted at 13 on 24th Oct 1836 and transported to Tassie on the Royal Sovereign, for 7 years, arriving 29th Aug 1837. The Colonial Times in Hobart report Feb 1844 that the Governor has grant Tickets-to-leave to Philip Neal (and other) of the Royal Sovereign. There is an age difference of 3 to 4 years.
I think I may need to obtain the other children’s birth certificates to see if his age is consistent.
If the children were sent to Industrial Schools what would have become of them? I did have a bit of a look at the Sunbury Industrial School – It didn’t sound like a nice place to be. It closed in 1879.
I had also had a look at the passenger lists. I thought that Thomas and Mary looked promising but couldn’t find a Philip with them. Still checking the 1841 census at the moment, with a couple of Philip’s to track.
Thanks for your help,
Jenny
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 10, 2009 6:20:42 GMT -5
Hmmm - if Mary was 'done' for vagrancy in 1871 and the last you have for Philip is 1867 it seems likely that he has either died or scarpered.
With no death record found for him it looks a possibility that may have done a runner - but to where?
CT
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jmg
Ysel
Posts: 55
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Post by jmg on Nov 15, 2009 23:31:33 GMT -5
Hello CT,
Just an up date I thought you may be interested in. Through the newspaper web site I was able to obtain a date for when Philip Neal was imprisoned.
My cousin who has been trying to trace the Neal family for a number of years was able to go to Melbourne and look at the prison records. They gave a description of the prisoner.
I had found two Philip Neal/Neil who were transported to Tassie and through the “Tasmanian Archives online” web site I was able to eliminate one (because of his age at transportation). The other one was transported in 1836 as a 13 year old. Through the web site I was able to get a description of him.
Both the Melbourne prisoner description and the Tasmanian prisoner description have a scar on the left side of the face. The Melbourne records state that there is a scar or scars on his shoulder. The Tasmanian records state that the prisoner was given lashes more than once.
Still a bit of work to do to tie the two together but slowly my cousin and I are getting there.
A bit of irony – The 13 year old Philip Neal’s trial was at the Old Bailey. He was transported for 7 years for stealing “Lawn” from a gentleman named “William Davies” (don't think he is related).
jmg
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