William Trembath St Just

[sue15]

Hello
I have a brickwall at the moment in my Trembath research and I wonder if a kind person could please help me find a way forward.

I have on 1841 census
Ann Trembath Widow living in Trewellard aged 55 - at times she is known as Nanny. She gives her birth place as Morvah. On the 1851 and subsequent census returns her birth date works out around 1791. So anywhere 1786 to 1791.
The first child seems to be born in 1814 from the OPC. Her last son was called William ( the first william died) he was born 1828. This is my direct line.
When Ann's son William marries Eliza Jane Carbis he advises his father was called William and a Miner.

I am trying to find
1. The marriage between William Trembath and Ann?
2. The baptism and parentage of William.
3. The burial for William Trembath before 1841

I have seen family trees which show William to be the son of Edmund Trembath and Elizabeth James. These trees show a William born 1787 Morvah and dying 1833 St Just.
The dates work but its no good without proof.

Any help or advice would be gratefully received

best wishes

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Sue,
I have been having a look at this problem and it is proving a little difficult.

There are a couple of possible burials for William recorded on the OPC site.
The one you have mentioned in 1833 and there is another in 1837 for William, age 47, of Rosemergy in Morvah.

I would lean towards the 1833 burial at this point. BTW the burial occurred at Morvah although William was 'of Leswidden, St Just'.)

The other problem is that I have so far been unable to find a marriage for William and Ann.
It is not in IGI and I cannot find it at St Just, Madron or Morvah and nor is it at Zennor, Towednack, Sancreed, St Buryan or Gulval.

I take it from your note that none of the 'trees' you have looked at have provided any details of the marriage?

I am at a loss at the moment but in case you had not noticed the two witnesses to the marriage of William and Eliza were Arthur and Thomas TREMBATH, very likely his brothers.

CT

[HeatherC]

Hello Sue and welcome to the forum

I am the Online Parish Clerk for Morvah and I may be able to help you sort some of your TREMBATH conundrum out. (Hopefully not add to it too much either )

From the Parish Registers the death you saw for the William TREMBATH of St Just in the family tree is this one

1833 Sunday 14 April, William TREMBATH, 46 years of Leswidden St Just

Which would make this William's birth around 1787 and the baptisms I have for William Trembath's around this date are

1 Jul 1787 William son of Edward Trembath*
20 May 1789 William son of William Trembath priv.
1 Aug 1790 William son of Arthur Trembath

*Just to confuse things this may actually be son of Edmund but has been recorded as Edward

If the Baptisms at St Just for Alice, Ann, Thomas, Jane, William and Elizabeth TREMBATH children of William and Ann of Leswidden, fathers occupation miner, is your family, then the 1833 burial certainly looks like your William TREMBATH snr.

Also, I am drawn by the name of William and Ann's second son, Arthur, because if I have the names of the children of your William Ann correct, they are -

Morvah

6 Nov 1814 William TREMBATH, William, Ann, Trembath/Trevean, tinner, Private Baptism. Burial Morvah, Thursday 20 Oct 1825 William TREMBATH, 10 years, Leswydden, St Just

4 Feb 1816 Arthur TREMBATH, William, Ann, Trevean, miner, Private Baptism

St Just in Penwith

23 Jan 1820 Alice TREMBATH, William, Nancy, [noted Alice from 1841 Census] Leswidden, miner

23 Jan 1820 Ann TREMBATH, William, Nancy, Leswidden, miner

2 Dec 1821 Thomas TREMBATH, William, Ann, Leswidden, miner

10 Apr 1824 Jane TREMBATH, William, Ann, Leswidden, miner

23 Jun 1826 William TREMBATH, William, Ann, Leswidden, miner

28 Sep 1828 Elizabeth TREMBATH, William, Ann, Leswidden, miner

And in the baptisms for William Trembath's at the beginning of this post, I have

1 Aug 1790 William son of Arthur Trembath also making this one a possible for you William snr!

Not found a marriage for William snr and Ann as yet but will keep digging......... there are a couple of things I want to check.

Will have a think on this and a bit more of a root round and get back to you.

Best regards
HeatherC

P.S. We may well tie up somewhere along the line with the CARBIS connection

[sue15]

Thank you both Heather C and Cornish Terrier
All the details of my family line you have shown are correct.

The trees I have seen have not provided any marriage details of William and Ann. There seems to be few Ann's in Morvah to choose from but she was consistent in her life with her birth place.

Yes the witnesses to William Jnr marriage are his brothers Arthur and Thomas.

Yes the baptisms for Williams children Leswidden St Just - Alice Ann Thomas Jane Elizabeth William etc.
To be honest I had over looked the Leswidden connection.-
This does seem compelling evidence putting William Snr as being buried 1833 and born 1787 son of Edward / Edmund.

I have hunted around the IGI and OPC's but cannot find a marriage. It doesn't help not knowing Ann's surname.

The only worry I have been the William son of Edward aka Edmund is that he does not seem to name a child by that name. I know that is not a hard and fast rule.

All your efforts are greatly appreciated.

I haven't looked at the Carbis family yet but Eliza Jane's father was called Christopher.

Fingers crossed something will turn up but I am very reluctant to jump to a conclusion.
Oh I am sending off for a will. An Edward / Edmond Trembath died 1807 and mentions a William in his will. I wondered if there would be a clue. Live in hope

Best wishes and thanks

Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

I wondered about a son Edmund also and it is very interesting to note that the very next dwelling to Ann TREMBATH as enumerated in 1841 was the home of Edmund TREMBATH and his wife Nanny and two children.

Edmund's age could be 39 or 30 so probably a bit old to be Ann's son but there could be a connection.

Just a thought.

CT

[davidkingmartin]

My "pennyworth", UNSOURCED (other than Census data):
Ann Behennah 1781, Tywardreath (or...reth).
There are two households in Tyw. with entries "Trembeth" or "Trembath", 1841 UK Census, under William T.
One household also incl. a "Williams" and a "Bennett".
David.

[newlyn]

Possible marriage of William Trembath to Ann Unknown is c.1814 Morvah.
This being Williams first marriage.
His second marriage is to Jane Wearne 3.9.1814 Morvah.
Jane was born c.1794 Morvah.

Williams parents could be Arthur Trembath b.8.9.1765 St Just and Jane Uren b.c1767 England.
They were married 13.3.1790 Madron.

Nothing proven, just some digging around!

[sue15]

Hello
Thank you to you all for your interest.

The point made about Ann's neighbour being Edmund Trembath in 1841 is well said.
I have looked at the writing and it could well say age 30. If this were the case - he could be feasibly here son. In fact the 1851 census gives his birth around 1807.
This would make it possible for William son of Edward to be the father of Edmund but not William son of Arthur.
Unfortunately as yet I have not found the baptism to support either theory.

the marriage of
William Trembath to Anne Behannah 28Jan 1805 Looked possible. This took place in Tywardreath near Fowey.
Unfortunately both this William and Ann were noted on the 1841 census for the area.

Your comments really help- I can go off and check and try to work out the puzzle.

Good luck in your own researches
Sue

[Cornish Terrier]

Sue - we are here to help and we love it!

So don't just fade into the background on us - keep involved and we will eventually find an answer to this problem.

This is a friendly place and we like to help each other so if you keep us updated with how things are going, what avenues you have pursued, what setbacks etc. it may help us find that elusive answer with you.

Never know - the next new member might have the answer you are looking for!

A question - do you know the occupation of William TREMBATH?

I know the Tywardreath marriage his proved to be no the right one but there is still the possibility that William and Ann married well away from West Penwith.

Do you know when and where Ann died and/or was buried?

If we can get some sort of consisency over a period of time for her approximate birthdate and place it might be possible to work around from that end of the picture.

We would, of course, need to rely on the fact that she was baptised in the Parish that is her stated place of birth but at least we would have a starting point. (Morvah at the moment I think.)

Might even be able to narrow possibilities down to even ive or six surnames which might be helpful.

A bit of checking on each of those, siblings included, might throw some light on the matter and we might even find a Will that could provide some answers.

All is not lost so have a think about some of the above and see if there are any possibilities I might have missed because if she is definitely of an area like Morvah then we should be able to track her down one or other.

CT

[sue15]

Hello CT
Thanks for the words of encouragement - I always feel embarrassed asking for help.

William was a Miner as was his son William.

This is what I have for Ann
Burial date 24 Oct 1861 Bosorne St Just in Penwith age 73 so making her birth about 1788.


Census 1841
age 55 living in Trewallard thus born 1786
Census 1851
age 60 l Widow living in St Just with daughter Alice thus born 1791 place of birth Morvah
Census 1861 Widow Servant Housekeeper living in Leseane Breage age 70 thus born 1791 place of birth St Just

She is a bit inconsistent with place of birth but when this is given those around her are not giving the same place as she stated.In other words the enumerator hasn't gone ditto down the page.

Looking at this I would say 1788 or thereabouts would be correct. I would expect a marriage around 1808 so the birth of her first son William 1814 - that one died seems rather late. This does make me wonder if they lived and married elsewhere. Or that she was married before even.

Thank you again

Sue

[sue15]

I tried to make a list of possible Ann's from Morvah OPC pages

Ann d/o Richard Man bap 10/6/1781
Ann d/o John Fox bap 6/1/1782
Anne d/o John Harry 17/10/1784
Anne d/o Richard Bone 1/7/1792

I cannot find marriages for any of them! I had a look to see who got married around 1814 when William and Ann's first child was born

In Morvah
23 / 7 /1814
William Trembath to Jane Harry
Hannibal and Anne Harry Witnesses.
Is it possible the vicar got the bride and witness confused when he wrote up the register.

Their son the first William was baptised in Nov 1814 so that would tie in.

Of course the marriage could have taken place before 1814 but I cannot see marriages on the opc page before that date. Not that I am complaining.

Please let me know what you think ....am I in the realms of wishful thinking?

Sue

[HeatherC]

Hello Again
Just to add a little more..........

The marriage between William Trembath and Jane Harry 23 July 1814 took place at Madron Church.
As you say, there could have been a mistake in the forenames of the bride and female witness and I have checked both the PR's and the BT's (these sort of mistakes are often picked up in the BT's) but no mention of that being so..... However, that does not mean there was not a mistake lol!

Another thought........ The names Ann, Nanny, Nancy all belong to the same stable (so to speak) and I have instances of a female using all these forms at some point in her life...... Jane can be added to that too So your Ann could equally have been a Nanny, Nancy or Jane

Still checking through my untranscribed records of Morvah for you and if I come up with anything else I let you know (soon as they are done I will upload them to my Morvah OPC page)

I love a puzzle

Best regards
HeatherC

[Cornish Terrier]

No.1 - Never feel embarassed to ask for help in this game.

No.2 - Wishful thinking? or wild ideas that might get results?

I was taught years ago that a problem like this often requires some radical thinking.

So think of every possibility that comes to mind - no matter how far-fetched it might seem - and you have something to work from.

You then eliminate each possibility as it can be proved absolutely wrong.

Somewhere down the track you will end up with only one possibility and there is a fair chance by that stage that you will have the answer!

So if you think of anything that might be a possibility (within or without the realms) then post it here and we can investigate it with you.

But for now I reckon I can eliminate one of your Anns:-

Ann bp. 10th June 1781 d/o Richard and Joan (nee BARAGWANATH) MANN married John MADDERN at St Buryan 28th June 1804

I won't guarantee that 110% but it is a high probability and I have more than one person who has voiced that scenario.

Ann's age is a bit of a concern given it is so inconsistent.

In 1841 an adult's age was normally rounded down to the nearest five years.

So if Ann has stated her age is 55 I would 'normally' expect her to have been born around 1782-1786.

But then she goes and tells everybody she is 60 in 1851 and 70 in 1861 which tells us she was born about 1790 or 1791.

When she dies in late 1861 her age is recorded as 73 which, as you say, places her birth almost firmly in 1788.

But remember that Ann would have been in no position to be telling anyone her age at that stage given that the Vicar would have done his job and the Sexton would have been just about ready to bury her! ;D

So the age at death may be a little arbitrary.

And also her place of birth varies between Morvah and St Just - a possible indication that she lived (or was born) around that border area between the two Parishes.

It might be worth looking at the villages, farms and hamlets in that region and then look for Anns associated with any of those places around the right time.

Another question - amongst the children or grandchildren were there any 'unusual' names used that might give us some sort of clue?

Have a think about some of that and see what might present itself as a clue.

CT

[sue15]

Hello CT and HeatherC
Your advice is spot on again and I am exploring the ideas of names

Ann on one baptism was described as Nanny- which gives an extra dimension.This was the earliest baptism as well.

The name Alice strung me as unusual .-the name of one of the daughters.

There is a Will on file for an Edmund Trembath who died in 1807. As Edmund is a potential candidate as Father to William I have sent off to Cornwall Record Office for a copy. I hope it may offer some clarity.

I think I will try to see if I can find any marriages for
William son of Arthur Trembath and William son of Edward Trembath. Maybe difficult as they do not seem to give much in the way of Father's details at this time.

You have been so kind looking up parish registers etc - I am very grateful.

Will keep you updated

Sue

Ps Have a Happy Easter everyone

[Cornish Terrier]

Now you're thinking! ;D

If the direct attack is not working then see if you can outflank the blighters!

There are many ways to eventually sort out some of these problems and they all need to be explored.

But don't be too disheartened with things at any time.

Among many I have one particular problem that has been bugging me for years.

A John Trewhella (I know who he was) and his wife Grace had four children at Redrutn in the 1820's/1830's.

I have limited information on the family although I discovered only a couple of weeks ago that his second son went to the USA.

This fellow was married in 1853 and had two children that I know of and then he simply vanished!
But I have found him again courtesy of the fact that two of his travelling companions were most likely brothers-in-law.

However I need to get back to the point!

I have found John and Grace in the 1851 Census and from that I know that Grace was born at Redruth about 1788.

John died in 1853 so part of the search has been restricted but I have not been able to find Grace anywhere since 1851.

When I was in Cornwall in 1994 I spent a lot of time at the CRO and went through every PR I could get my hands on and recorded every instance of the Trewhella (var.) name I could find.

In some cases, as with this one, I paid more attention to specific entries I was looking for.

I never did then and I have not to this date been able to find the marriage of John and Grace!

I have found nothing whatsoever that will give me a clue as to the identity of Grace - and I can tell you it is darned frustrating!

But one day the answer will be found.

So you just think of things the same way and keep working your way around the problem whilst not letting the problem itself get out of focus.

I will be interested in the details of that Will when it arrives so please keep us up to date.

CT