Cornish/Curnow/Kernow surname.

[Mal]

Hi everyone,

I have just found on a hitherto hundred per cent Devonshire line an ELIZABETH CORNISH who marries JOHN HODGE 1852 at Stoke Damerel, just "over the water" As of yet I haven't been able to find much out about Elizabeth other than an approximate birth around 1830/1.

Is there any connection between the surname CORNISH and the surname KERNOW/CURNOW et al.? Could it be an anglicisation, literally a translation, of Kernow or am I reading too much into it?

One internet source says that Cornish is a separate name given to the Cornishmen who went over the Tamar and is found throughout Britain. Another explanation says that it is indeed a translation of Curnow! Any ideas?

[Cornish Terrier]

Malcolm I don't think I have ever heard of that particular link.

But I can tell you that Richard CORNISH, yeoman of Breage, wrote his Will in 1670.

I have three children for him at the moment with one known sister, one known brother and his father was Nicholas CORNISH of Breage whose Will was proved in 1662.

And good ol' Pawley White has his opinion too :-

CORNISH, CORNWALL From A.S. Corn-wealas: stranger of the horn, headland; name givn by Saxons to people of Kernow.

CT

[davidkingmartin]

I have always understood that "Kernow" means "Cornwall". Sadly, my (late) father, a Cornish Bard (Dan-en -Hallow: Man of the Moors), is not around to confirm that.
David.

[Cornish Terrier]

David - you may be right there, and it makes some sense, however whether that has any connection to the proposed Saxon description may be open for debate.

But Pawley White also has an interesting definition of Curnow:-

CURNOW From Kernow, Cornishman. May be name given to descendants of Irish Kerns, invaders of 5th century. Found in Far West Cornwall.

CT

[trencrom]

While my understanding is that the surnames "Curnow" and "Cornish" essentially mean the same thing , I don't believe that it follows that one was derived from the other.

As David says, "Curnow" is derived from "Kernow", the Cornish language term for "Cornwall".
As Pawley White says, Cornwall comes from "cornweales". "Wealas" though is the Saxon term for "foreigner", and is also where we get the words "Wales" and "welsh" from, and it was applied to the Saxons to that region and its people. Cornwall in the early medieval period was known to the Saxons as West Wales! and the Cornish were called the West Welsh.
Also the Latin term for "Cornwall" was "Cornubia".

Trencrom

[Mal]

They were the Cornubian Welsh or Britons in some records.

I have now read elsewhere that ethnonyms as surnames usually denote someone having gone elsewhere and being designated by his or her origin.
I suppose we have
Welsh
Scot
English
Irish
Britain (from Breton) as viable surnames. The names of English shires are not unusual, Lancashire and Devon(shire), Kent and Essex (as in David who my mum liked ... groan) are possible too. Here in Italy you find "Greco", "Russo", "Inglese" and "Portogese" as surnames as well.

I am beginning to think that Cornish and Curnow are not related as surnames, as Cornish would be "Kernewek" or "Curnoack" in old spellings whereas Curnow literally means "Kernow" or Cornwall.

A note on Pawley White's stuff... it can be a bit bizarre at times, the problem with the Kearne/Kerne theory is that it seems to have been an.... wait for it.... alias!!!!!!! dan dan daaaaa for Tresilian/Tresulian- although why no one has yet been able to explain!!!!

All makes for interesting stuff though!
M