Edwin John Semmens - Madron or Perrabuthnoe?

[Isambard]

Here's another Semmens query, this time close to this sites' virtual home - ie. Cornwall, and not the wilds of northern England.

I'm trying to sort out the families of two Edwin John Semmenses, one of whom emmigrated to Canada and may have links to a previous query (William Glasson Semmens). I'm also trying not to spend too much money on this search. ;D

The two were born in Cornwall in 1888. So far I have the following info:
- Free BMD - Edwin John Semmens, June 1888 Penzance, Vol 5c, page 246
- Free BMD - Edwin John Semmens, September 1888 Penzance Vol 5c page 243
- Cornwall OPC - Edwin John Semmens, Baptism 25 May 1888 Madron, father Thomas, mother Susan
- Ancestry.co.uk Brandes Family Tree - Edwin John Semmens, 1888 Cornwall, father Edwin Semmens, mother Joanna Grace Hosking
- 1901 Census on-line (free part):
- Edwin J. Semmens 12, b. Perranuthnoe
- Edwin John Semmens 12, b. Madron
- Edwin Semmens 33, b. Penzance, Petty Officer 1st class
- Edwin Semmens 50, b. Perranuthnoe, Postman

Scanning the Cornwall Online Census 1891 census pages repeatedly, I've not found any of these Edwin Semmenses, but maybe my eyes deceive me.?? . Nor have I found any for the 1891 census on the 1901 Census site.

One of the 1888 Edwin John Semmenses emigrated to Canada about 1912 and married Minnie Mary Rule of St. Keverne in Vancouver 6 July 1916, shortly after Minnie arrived in Canada. This Edwin died in Vancouver 14 March 1967, and Minnie predeceased him 1 July 159, also in Vancouver. I'm waiting possible clues from death certificates.

Isambard

[londoner]

Found your chaps in 1891:

Perranuthnoe
Edwin Semmens 40 Tin Miner
Joanah Semmens 40
Edwin J 2
Samuel H 7m
Grace L 70 wid mother

Madron:
Thomas Semmens 44
Susan 41
William T 10
Dora 9
Albert 5
John E 3 (they reversed the order of his name just to confuse us!)

If the brothers of the Edwin who went to Canada also went it might help prove which is which ie Samuel, Joseph & Willie (1901 census has the two younger ones, mother is listed as Grace not Joanna, using her middle name after ma-in law died?) or William & Albert; but I suspect the Perranuthnoe one is the one you want.

[newlyn]

From the 1901 census:

Edwin Semmens b.1851 Perranuthnoe - Postman
Grace Semmens b.1851 Liskeard
Edwin J Semmens b.1889 Perranuthnoe
Samuel Semmens b.1891 Perranuthnoe
Joseph J Semmens b.1893 Perranuthnoe
Willie Semmens b.1896 Perranuthnoe
Living at Trevean, Perranuthnoe, Perran Churgh.


Also 1901 census:

Thomas Semmens b.1852 Madron - Quarryman and Stone Breaker
Susan Semmens b.1853 Breage
William T Semmens b.1881 Madron - Gardener
Albert Semmens b.1886 Madron - Farm Labourer
Edwin John Semmens b.1889 Madron
Living at Madron Church Town, Madron

[newlyn]

Possible parents of Edwin Semmens (Postman)
could be John Semmens and Grace?


1891 census:
Nicholas Rule b.1838 St Keverne - Agricultural Labourer
Alice Rule b.1846 St Keverne
Jane Rule b.1878 St Keverne
Minnie Rule b.1882 St Keverne
Ernest rule b.1889 St Erth
Living at Grougath, St Keverne

[londoner]

Well done Newlyn - I ran out of time to put the 1901 details in.
John & Grace look likely. marriage is on OPC site, his father was Richard, she was Grace Lyne Gilbert bp 1816 Gunwalloe (what a pretty little church) parents Anthony & Elizabeth

[newlyn]

Thankyou for the info londoner

Anthony Gilbert married Elizabeth Lyne 25.10.1815 Mawgan in Meneage

Anthony Gilbert b. 26.2.1792 Gunwalloe.
Parents are William Gilbert and Margaret Repper m. 5.6.1786 Helston

Grace Lyne Gilbert b.8.12.1816

[Isambard]

Thank you Nelyn and Londoner! You folks are fast, and have bettter eyes and sources! ;D

A Joseph James Semmens died in Vancouver 12 August 1975, age 83. It looks like he is the Joseph J. Semmens b. 1891 Perranuthnoe in the 1901 census, and the brother of the Edwin John Semmens in Vancouver.

[Cornish Terrier]

Here are the relevant entries from British Columbia Marriages and Deaths:-

British Columbia Marriage Index: 1872 to 1924 British Columbia Marriage Index: 1872 to 1924
Name: EDWIN JOHN SEMMENS
Bride: MINNIE MARY RULE
Marriage Date: 6 Jul 1916
Place: VANCOUVER
bca number: B11379
Registration Number: 1916-09-084498
GSU Number: 1983707



Source Information:

Ancestry.com. British Columbia Marriage Index: 1872 to 1924 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2001. Original data: British Columbia Vital Statistics Agency. British Columbia, Canada. British Columbia Vital Statistics Agency: P.O. Box 9657, Stn Prov Govt, Victoria, BC V8W 9P3.

Description:
This database contains an index to marriages recorded in British Columbia, Canada between 1872 and 1924. The following information is provided in the index: surname, given name, gender, year, month, day, event place, registration number, British Columbia Archives microfilm number, and Family History Library microfilm number.


© 2009, The Generations Network, Inc.
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British Columbia Death Index: 1872 to 1979 British Columbia Death Index: 1872 to 1979
Name: Edwin John Semmens
Gender: Male
Age: 78
Death Date: 14 Mar 1967
Place of Death: Vancouver
Registration #: 1967-09-003721
BCA #: B13282
GSU #: 2033858



Source Information:

Ancestry.com. British Columbia Death Index: 1872 to 1979 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2001. Original data: British Columbia Vital Statistics Agency. British Columbia, Canada. British Columbia Vital Statistics Agency: P.O. Box 9657, Stn Prov Govt, Victoria, BC V8W 9P3.

Description:
An Index of deaths in the province of British Columbia, Canada, from 1872 to 1979. It includes surname, given name, gender, year, month, day, event place, and registration number.


© 2009, The Generations Network, Inc.
<< Return to Results Screen

Does not seem like I can get a view of the actual Death Certificate so do not know whether the father's name, if known, would be listed.

The closest I can find at the moment in the Canadian passenger lists is an E J Simmons arriving at Quebec in 1909 but he gave his age as 20.

I was hoping to find at least an E Semmens (or similar) travelling with family but nothig as yet.

Will have another look around a little later.

[Isambard]

I've just received confirmation that the BC death certificate is for the Edwin John Semmens of Perranuthnoe.

I've not yet found passenger lists for him or his brother Joseph James Semmens.

Referring to our earlier discussions regarding William Glasson Semmens, his wife Margaret Isabel Corkill and his brother Edmund James Semmens; those same BC Archives records show a Graham Corkill Semmens death, age 70 on 23 July 1978, Victoria BC and an Edmund James Semmens death, age 91 on 24 September 1969, North Vancouver BC.

I'm still looking for passenger lists for the original (?) arrival of Edmund James Semmens in Canada. I do have this from the Canadian archives:
"Edmund James Semmens, Montreal, on board the S.S. Victorian, sailing from Liverpool 10 May 1912, listed in the passenger list, pg 28 of 42, as Canadian, age 32, out of country since 1908/11, from Toronto, 2 1/2 years, born England, destination Toronto."

There is a James Semmens, age 33, Miner who arrived in Montreal on board the Empress of Britain on 7 September 1908, destination Calumet, Michigan, also he's three years too old to be Edmund James Semmens.

CT - where did you find the EJ Simmons, 1909 reference?

[Cornish Terrier]

CT - where did you find the EJ Simmons, 1909 reference?

Found that in "Canadian Passenger Lists 1865-1935" on Ancestry

Odd - now I cannot find that no matter how I try to search!

There is this one but he is a little old and the original document shows his occupation as 'music teacher'.

Name: E Semmens
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Date of Arrival: 28 May 1909
Vessel: Corsican
Search Ship Database: View the 'Corsican' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4760


AH - think I found it but must have looked at another line when I quoted the year of arrival!

E J Simmons
Gender: Male
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Date of Arrival: 8 May 1911
Vessel: Canada
Search Ship Database: View the 'Canada' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Montreal, Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4774

Having absolutely no luck with anything else that might help at te moment.

Should I think of somethig or find anything at all I will post it here.

CT

[newlyn]

Found another E J Semmens in the passenger lists:

E J Semmens b.1889
Day of Departure: 18.5.1912
Port of departure: Liverpool
Destination: Quebec
Occupation: Boiler Maker
Ship: Canada
Officlal Number: 116806
Masters Name: R O Jones
Steamship Line: White Star Dominion
Bound for: Montreal
Square foot: 20114
Tonnage: 6016
Number of Passengers: 1461

[Cornish Terrier]

It took some finding but this is the only match I can find-

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Edward Simmens
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1889
Date of Arrival: 26 May 1912
Vessel: Canada
Search Ship Database: View the 'Canada' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4785



Source Information:

Ancestry.com. Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2008. Original data: Library and Archives Canada. Passenger Lists, 1865-1935. Ottawa, Canada: Library and Archives Canada. RG76, T-479 to T-520, T-4689 to T-4874, T-14700 to T-14939, C-4511 to C-4542.

Description:
This database contains passenger lists of ships arriving in various Canadian ports, as well as a few eastern U.S. ports, from 1865-1935. Information listed in these records includes: name of passenger, age, gender, marital status, birth country, nationality, occuaption, and religious affiliation.


© 2009, The Generations Network, Inc.
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This bloke was a 'groom' before he left England and was heading for Vancouver, BC to work as a farm labourer.

It is possible the name was misheard on arrival but ......

Now here is something else interesting I just noticed after re-reading the postings on this query.

" married Minnie Mary Rule of St. Keverne in Vancouver 6 July 1916, shortly after Minnie arrived in Canada."

Name: EDWIN JOHN SEMMENS
Bride: MINNIE MARY RULE
Marriage Date: 6 Jul 1916
Place: VANCOUVER

I was getting worried for a moment - seemed Minnie would hardly have had time to get off the boat!

But I now understand:-

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Minnie Mary Rule
Gender: Female
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1887
Date of Arrival: 24 Jun 1916
Vessel: Metagama
Search Ship Database: View the 'Metagama' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Roll: T-4815



Source Information:

Ancestry.com. Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2008. Original data: Library and Archives Canada. Passenger Lists, 1865-1935. Ottawa, Canada: Library and Archives Canada. RG76, T-479 to T-520, T-4689 to T-4874, T-14700 to T-14939, C-4511 to C-4542.

Description:
This database contains passenger lists of ships arriving in various Canadian ports, as well as a few eastern U.S. ports, from 1865-1935. Information listed in these records includes: name of passenger, age, gender, marital status, birth country, nationality, occuaption, and religious affiliation.


© 2009, The Generations Network, Inc.
<< Return to Results Screen

So they have married 12 days after Minnie arrived which obviously means that, unless it wasa whirlwind romance, they had known each other for some time back in Cornwall.

Did she actually wait four years to see Edwin again or did he travel back to Cornwall on the odd occasion to see her?

Will do some more snooping around and see what I can find.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Have decided to try something a little different!

Thought it worthwhile (just to try everything ) to try a search through the ten years until 1916 and just look for the name 'Edwin'.

Very intresting excercise!

There are quite a number of entries just for 'Edwin' and on viewing the first image I found out why - the whole surname section of the page is faded beyond recognition!

The second I looked at had a surname that could not be read because a thick dark line (possibly a page fold) ran straight through the entry - however I could make out that the first letter was a 'T' so discounted him.

So I will display here any entries that 'might' possibly be your man.

Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Mr Edwin John
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892
Date of Arrival: 24 Jun 1913
Vessel: Royal George
Search Ship Database: View the 'Royal George' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Quebec
Port of Departure: Bristol and Avonmouth, England
Roll: T-4799



Source Information:

Ancestry.com. Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: The Generations Network, Inc., 2008. Original data: Library and Archives Canada. Passenger Lists, 1865-1935. Ottawa, Canada: Library and Archives Canada. RG76, T-479 to T-520, T-4689 to T-4874, T-14700 to T-14939, C-4511 to C-4542.

Description:
This database contains passenger lists of ships arriving in various Canadian ports, as well as a few eastern U.S. ports, from 1865-1935. Information listed in these records includes: name of passenger, age, gender, marital status, birth country, nationality, occuaption, and religious affiliation.


© 2009, The Generations Network, Inc.
<< Return to Results Screen

This one was a farmer heading for Vancouver and travelled with "British Bonus Allowed".

Now into those with readable surnames so will check for odd spellings.

But I thought I would be clever and try to narrow down the search by checking the 1911 Census to see if our two candidates were still in England.

Well 'assuming' by then that the name would be spelt correctly - i.e. Semmens - I found that there are only three Edwins in the transcribed section of the Census and they are age 60, 45 and 8!

Back to the search.

Sad to report that I am still unable to find him.

I have also had a look at the New York Passenger Lists but again to no avail.

I just do not know where to look next!

CT

[Isambard]

I've received copies of Edwin John Semmens and Minnie Mary Rules marriage certificate, their death certificates and Edwin's will.

From their marriage certificate, 7 July 1916, Christ Church, Vancouver:

Edwin John Semmens, age 28, Bachelor, Auto Truck Foreman
Residence- Hollyburn, North Vancouver BC
Birthplace - Perranuthnoe, near Marazion, Cornwall, England
Father - Edwin Semmens
Mother - Johanna Grace Semmens
Father's profession - Postman
Bridegroom - Church of England
Minnie Mary Rule, age 28, Spinster, Ladies Maid
Residence - 1117 Mellville St, St. Keverne, Cornwall, England
Father - Nicholas Rule
Mother - Alice Curnow
Father's profession - Gardener
Bride - Church of England

Notwithstanding Minnie's age as declared there, her death certificate states her birth date was 31 October 1880, vs 1888 if she was 28 in 1916. It would interesting to find her birth registration or baptismal record.

I'll review those various EJ Semmens and variants found by CT tomorrow. Hopefully we're getting close.

PS: Aha, it looks like Minnie was an 1880 Christmas season baby - from the 1881 Census:
Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Nicholas RULE Head M Male 44 St Keverne, Cornwall, England Farm Lab
Alice RULE Wife M Female 30 St Keverne, Cornwall, England
John RULE Son Male 12 St Keverne, Cornwall, England Scholar
James RULE Son Male 8 St Keverne, Cornwall, England Scholar
Lillie RULE Daur Female 5 St Keverne, Cornwall, England Scholar
Janie RULE Daur Female 3 St Keverne, Cornwall, England
Mary RULE Daur Female 5 m St Keverne, Cornwall, England


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling Nambol Cot
Census Place St Keverne, Cornwall, England
Family History Library Film 1341559
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 2324 / 71
Page Number 6

[Cornish Terrier]

1891 Census confirms it - she ws then known as 'Minnie' and age recorded as 9.

And you can add son Ernest born about 1888 at St Erth.