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Post by ronjoan on May 28, 2012 13:32:56 GMT -5
PS I meant that Thomas Frognall Junior Died 1778 - not his father. If anyone has come across Frognall information please let me know!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 28, 2012 16:34:10 GMT -5
First things being first - Welcome to the site.  And second things coming afterwards:- In actual fact this is most likely an incorrect assumption. An understandable assumption given the Noy families in Cornwall and the prominence of at least some however. But if you log into FamilySearch and go to the Births and Christenings link you may be surprised what you find if you enter NOY into the First Names box and hit enter.  Amongst those you will find are:- Noy James baptised 1692 Constantine, Cornwall Noy Leedes baptised 1597 St Mildred, Canterbury, Kent Noy Lowry baptised 1710 Luxulyan, Cornwall Noy Ranson baptised 1669 St Martin in the Fields, Westminster, London Noy Cliptono baptised 1579 Strood near Rochester, Kent Noy Clapam baptised 1613 Fiskerton, Lincoln And many more! I did some searching for meanings of the name and found 1. it is an Old English name and 2. it is Hebrew in origin. From Ancestry we have this:- English: variant of Noe.Jewish (Israeli): ornamental name from Hebrew noy ‘decoration’, ‘adornment’, in part adopted as a Hebraicized form of various Ashkenazic surnames containing the unrelated German element neu, e.g. Neumann (see Newman).Catalan: variant of Noi, nickname from noi ‘boy’, ‘lad’. Possibly some children were named for a Noy ancestor but in most cases the name is like Edward, Richard, James, John, Peter etc. which are also all surnames. CT |
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 28, 2012 16:41:55 GMT -5
Having publicised my most recent educational experience in regards to the name Noy as a Given Name I must now offer the following ............... just as a matter of interest of course!  The parents of Dorothy Tonkin (wife of Edward Tregurtha) were Thomas TONKEN and Doryty NOYE who married at Paul 30th November 1672.  CT |
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Post by ronjoan on May 29, 2012 7:00:23 GMT -5
OK Cornish Terrier but what about the IGI result I published? And also the fact that her sister Elizabeth Tonkin (which is confirmed from the Will of Thomas Frognall (her Grandson,) which I have which refers to the Dorothy Tregurtha and Noy Tregurthat and also another sister Margaret Blaney/Blamey) is also recorded as being the daughter of John Tonkin from IGI again. I accept IGI might have made a mistake once but surely not twice!! Maybe there was another Dorothy Tonken. I have noticed that there is a will for John Tonken Fisherman of Newlyn who died in 1792 - I am going to get it and see whether this is the same John Tonken referred to in IGI as the father of Dorothy.
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Post by ronjoan on May 29, 2012 8:26:07 GMT -5
My Humble Apologies, Cornish Terrier. I have just found Captain Thomas Tonkin's will on National Archives and he refers to Elizabeth Frognall, Margarey Blamey and and Dorothy Tregura as his daughters and so Thomas Tonkin and Dorothy Noy are clearly the parents!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 29, 2012 12:47:55 GMT -5
You obviously don't know IGI very well! ;D Perhaps what you don't understand is that not all entries are actual transcriptions from the registers. For some stupid reason that I could never fathom LDS Members were allowed to submit their own data to IGI and hence you end up with illogical relationships based purely on things such as 'the groom always marries at age 25' and 'the bride always marries at age 21'. Unfortunately too many people took these entries as fact, just like many of the Online Family Trees, and hence errors were, and still are, perpetuated.  But yes, the Will does confirm the parents of Dorothy so that problem is solved.  Hmm - if this were the same John Tonken referred to in IGI as father of Dorothy then given she was married in 1672 (130 years earlier) that would make John at least 150 years old! The bottom line is that anything from IGI/FamilySearch needs to be thoroughly checked and preferrably checked against original registers of which many are currently available online via FamilySearch. If access to registers is not available then one thing people can do is to check the Source listed in the IGI/FamilySearch entry. Film numbers are usually recorded with the entries so all you need to do is go the the FHS Library Catalog on FamilySearch and look up the Film Number to see what the film contains. That gives an idea of whether the information might be reliable at least. But once again do not take that for granted either!  Just a few days ago I had some curious entries in FamilySearch/IGI that were attributed to the Parish of Tresmeer. The entries were burials for people that I knew had been in the Redruth area all their lives. When I did some further checking I discovered that the two people were actually buried at Treleigh which is a 'Modern Parish' formed out of the northern part of Redruth.  The error was caused because the particular film contained records for several Parishes beginning with 'T' and these included Treleigh and Tresmeer. Seems that the transcriber just kept on transcribing as if everything happened at Tresmeer and forgot to change! CT |
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Post by ronjoan on May 29, 2012 14:32:58 GMT -5
"Hmm - if this were the same John Tonken referred to in IGI as father of Dorothy then given she was married in 1672 (130 years earlier) that would make John at least 150 years old"
Credit me with some intelligence Cornish Terrier - that was a clumsy finger mistake!! I meant 1692. But as I found Captain Tonkyn's will I did not bother to send off that will anyway! Next task is to find the parentage of Thomas Tonkin. I have a suspicion that his grandfather may be John Tonkin (gent) of St Agnes who entered into a property agreement with Edward Noy grandparent of Dorothy Noy in the 1620s. This may explain the connection.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 29, 2012 22:05:28 GMT -5
Sorry - that was not meant as an insult!  You will find that I am prone to the odd error as well and plenty of examples appear through this site! But actually the way it was written did appear as if the IGI entry was at fault in its wording rather than a typo on your own behalf. Regarding the parents of Thomas Tonkin - that does look like a reasonable appraisal so a look at the documents would be interesting. CT |
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Post by pedro on Jun 14, 2015 6:38:08 GMT -5
Regarding Tonkin family group.
John Tonkin and Elizabeth Deeble married Paul church 1796
i see no mention of their son Samuel Deeble christened at Paul 3rd Feb 1811
he was my great,great ,grandfather
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Post by beekgirl on Nov 28, 2015 20:01:57 GMT -5
If anyone has any info on the Paul Tonkins and Tregurthas I would be most grateful. Hello! Bryan Tonkin and Mary Tregurtha - born in the mid-1600s in Paul, Cornwall are my 10th-great-grandparents. I don't have much info on the Tregurtha side, but I have a huge amount of information including supporting documents and some family photos of my Tonkin line and some extended family branches. I've also had my DNA tested through Ancestry.com. Please feel free to contact me, and I'll be happy to share what info I have. Truly, QM |
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Amongst those you will find are:-
