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Post by Isambard on Feb 15, 2009 19:07:43 GMT -5
This query may be dependent on non-Cornish records but alert members of this site may be able to help, as usual. William Glasson Semmens was born in West Derby, Lancs abt June 1876, father James Semmens b. abt 1838 (?) Paul, mother Elizabeth Quick b. abt 1837 Towednack (?). His siblings were Ada Glasson S, Thomas Henry Glasson S, John Vine S, Elizabeth Cornish S and Edmund James S, all born West Derby. William G arrived in Montreal, Canada 13 June 1904, together with his cousins Andrew Dunstan Quick and James Dunstan Quick of Canon's Town, Penzance; William G passenger was listed as age 28, single, Surveyor, destination Manitoba. From a family tree received from a relative, William G married twice - to M.A. Eldred, and to M.I. Corkhill by whom he had three children - Thomas S, Graham S and Ralph William S; M.I. Corkhill dying in 1924 (?). I am looking for BMD information on William G , his marriages and children, drawing a blank so far on free sites for Canada, or the UK, if he returned to England. Thank you all!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 16, 2009 10:07:35 GMT -5
G'day Isambard - still hunting I see! I have done a little more work on this query tonight and will try to do more tomorrow (in between trying to catch up on other work yet to be done!). Firstly I need to make a correction. The father of William Glasson SEMMENS was actually THOMAS (not James). Thomas SEMMENS married Elizabeth QUICK 5th August 1862 at Towednack by Licence. Witnesses were Thomas Henry GLASSON and James QUICK. Thomas SEMMENS was, according to Census records, born at Paul about 1837 and was the son of Edmund SEMMENS who had married Esther GLASSON at Paul in 1822. The witness Thomas Henry GLASSON was probably the uncle of Thomas SEMMENS and brother of Esther. Edmund SEMMENS was baptised at Ludgvan 21st November 1794 son of John SEMMENS. It is here that things really become confusing! It is possible that Edmund was a brother to the Thomas SEMMENS who married Esther's sister Elizabeth Cornish GLASSON at Paul 11th March 1845 given that Thomas' father was also John SEMMENS. But it appears there may have been two John SEMMENS about although I can find a marriage for only one at the moment. Not having any luck with the Canadian side of things at the moment but will try again a little later. CT
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Post by Isambard on Feb 16, 2009 11:06:26 GMT -5
Hello CT,
Yes, I have an occasional hunting binge, often inspired by the interesting posts on this site.
And yes, that was my data base to thread posting transcription error regarding William Glasson's father, who was Thomas, not James - a senior's moment ;D
As another bit of information, from Free BMD, I've found Thomas Henry Glasson Semmens married Edith Ellen Corkhill, 3rd qtr 1901, West Derby.
Cheers for now.
PS: I've since found the following regarding Edmund and Hester (Esther), and who I believe is the Thomas Semmens of interest.
1841 Census Enumeration District 22 Civil Parish of Paul Book 10 Folio 46 Page 4: ---- Trevithal,1, Edmund Semmens,48,,Farmer,In county, ,,Hester Semmens,,41,,In county, ,,Grace Semmens,,17,,In county, ,,John Semmens,14,,,In county, ,,Mary Semmens,,12,,In county, ,,Elizabeth Semmens,,9,,In county, ,,Eliza Semmens,,7,,In county, ,,Thomas Semmens,4,,,In county, ,,Jenifer Semmens,,1,,In county,
1841 census Enumeration District 27 Civil Parish of Gulval Book 1 Folio 50 Page 4:
Hellangove,1,John Semmens,83,,Independent,In county, ,,John Semmens,50,,Farmer,In county, ,,Thomas Semmens,30,,Farmer,In county,
From the LDS:
Edmond Semmons: b. 29 Oct 1793, c. 21 Nov 1794 Ludgvan, Father-John Semmens, Mother - Mary
Thomas Semmens: b. 27 Sept 1804, c. 27 Jan 1805 Ludgvan, Father - John Semmens, Mother - Mary.
So it does look as if Edmond (Edmund) and Thomas were brothers as you speculated.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 2:51:44 GMT -5
So THAT is why I could not find a marriage for William G SEMMENS! ;D But then the questions surface! Did William Glasson SEMMENS marry M.A.Eldred as suggested above? When and where did this event occur? Did William indeed marry twice? I was just about to put my foot 'right in it' when I had another look and realised that we have two different CORKHILL girls involved here! The obvious assumption is that they were sisters. From your first note William was single when he arrived in 'America' and the absence of a marriage record in the UK indicates both marriages possibly occurred in either the USA or Canada. So let me take a little time to check on the CORKHILL side of things and then post my results. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 3:08:59 GMT -5
Could 'M.I.Corkhill' be M.J.? Try this from the 1901 Census:- Garston, Lancashire 60 Knowsley Rd, Cressington Park Sarah J CORKILL, head, wid., 54, living on own means, Cumberland, Maryport(?) Hannah M do., daur, unm., 30, snr hospital nurse, Lancs., Liverpool EDITH E do., daur, unm., 26, Lancs., Liverpool MARGARET J do., daur, unm, 23, school teacher, Lancs., Liverpool Robina C do., daur, unm, 22, shipping clerk, Lancs., Liverpool Emily H do., daur, unm, 18, I.O.M., Braddan Ida G do., daur, unm, 15, I.O.M., Braddan Looks pretty good so far! Will take another break now while I check the 1891 and 1881 Census as well as FreeBMD for possible births for the children. From there I should hope to find the marriage and even a possible death for the father of these girls. Further decisions will emanate from that little excercise! ;D CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 4:12:16 GMT -5
Crikey! - what a chase this one is! I have found what I think is the probable marriage:- 1869 Liverpool R.D. December Qtr Vol 8b Page 48 John CORKILL Sarah Isabella GRAHAM (If this is correct then the middle initial of Margaret is probably 'I' ) Have not yet been able to find the family prior to the 1901 Census but I may now have them in 1871:- 21 Elm St, West Derby, Liverpool, Lancashire John CORKHILL, head, mar, 25, cook, Isle of Man, Ramsey Isabella do., wife, mar, 24, Cumberland, Morsby (Mossbay?) John do., son, 1mth, Lancashire, Liverpool d**n! - that does not seem to work as 'Isabella' is a widow in 1881. Plan B - check the Births ;D Checking CORKILL births Reg'd. Lancashire 1870-1886 and working from the 1901 Census:- Hannah Mary CORKILL W.Derby R.D. 1870 December Qtr Vol 8b Page 273 Edith Ellen CORKILL W.Derby R.D. 1874 June Qtr Vol 8b Page 246 Margaret Isabel CORKILL W.Derby R.D. 1877 June Qtr Vol 8b Page 255 Robina Catherine CORKILL W.Derby R.D. 1879 June Qtr Vol 8b Page 214 ;D - All of that matches with the 1901 Census. I have not yet found births for the two youngest daughters but they were born IOM and I am not sure yet how to get that information. However, Edith Ellen CORKILL and Margaret Isabel CORKILL will be the girls who married the brothers SEMMENS. I also 'suspect' that the youngest daughter might be Ida GRAHAM Corkill which, if correct, would mean that the marriage I identified above would be the correct one. Now to see if I can find some information for IOM and then maybe try some 'emigration' records. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 5:11:11 GMT -5
Have found my way to some information on Isle of Man records but what a nightmare I am finding it to be to find my way around! However - I have just possibly found something of interest although, unfortunately, it requires subscription. Nevertheless - tried a search for Ida G CORKILL and found 1 result - 1901 Census. (Already posted that one!) Then tried Emily H CORKILL - this time there are two results with one also being the 1901 Census entry. But the second (the one requiring subscription) indicates this name has been found in the 1911 Census of Canada! Name - Emily H CORKILL Home in 1911 - Manitoba, Winnipeg City Birth Year - 1883 That seems a very good match to me and indicates at least part of the family left England between 1901 and 1911. There is a marriage on FreeBMD for Ida G CORKILL 1911 September Qtr Vol 8b Page 269 Ida G CORKILL Emil E M J W ALBOROUGH or Frederick J GELDART Cannot track down the birth records yet but will try a couple of other options before taking a look at the Emigration Records. Not having much luck anywhere at the moment so I think I will leave it with you for a while. Hopefully there is enough here to help you a little. CT
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Post by Isambard on Feb 17, 2009 12:18:02 GMT -5
Thanks CT, you have given me much to chew on. I'm amazed at how fast you're able to turn around multiple queries overnight, and still deal with fire calls - that's really keeping cool (figuratively) . IOM means Isle of Man I assume? Edmund James Glasson emigrated to Canada and married Jane Quick Lawry, b. abt 1886 Cornwall, in Toronto abt 1914. They settled in Calgary.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 23:37:33 GMT -5
I was not nicknamed 'Cornish Terrier' for nothing - once I get my teeth into something I am reluctant to let go of it! ;D Fortunately I have managed, over the years, to find access to a number of useful sites and also built up a collection of PR information that is readily accessible so some things I can do fairly quickly. And often times I find that a query relating to one family suddenly involves several others so I can deal with a number of items at the one time. IOM - yes it means Isle of Man. If you do a Google search for 'Isle of Man births' you should find links to a number of IOM sites. Unfortunately I found them difficult to navigate so did not spend too much time looking at them. Might try again tonight while things are a little calmer and also while it is a little earlier. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 17, 2009 23:45:44 GMT -5
Do you mean Edmund James SEMMENS I will take a look at Jane Quick LAWRY and see what I can find about her. FreeBMD has births for two with the surname LAWRY but I have not yet tried variants. 1889 Falmouth R.D. December Qtr Vol 5c Page 163 1891 Penzance R.D. March Qtr Vol 5c Page 274 Just tried six or seven variations of the surname with no result so I will pursue these two and see where it leads. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2009 0:54:08 GMT -5
Thought I would try and fill in a few gaps for you whilst hunting for information on Jane Quick LAWRY. Ada Glasson SEMMENSmarried John Pickering FLEET in 1895 at W.Derby R.D., Lancashire. John had been born at Norwich, Norfolk in 1856 and was first married in 1884 to Alice Isabella LAYCOCK who died in 1890 age 34. One known son from the first marriage - John Bertrand FLEET born 1886 Skipton, North Yorkshire. From the marriage to Ada Glasson SEMMENS there were three children up to the time of the 1901 Census:- Florence Ada born 1896 Birkenhead Lilian Marjorie born 1898 Birkenhead Eric Thomas born 1900 Birkenhead John Vine SEMMENSmarried in 1903 at W.Ham R.D. Emily Caroline CHAPMAN or Sarah Eleanor GREGAR Cannot find them in the 1911 Census so am not sure just which of these girls he married. I can also find no births from 1911 onwards for them. Eizabeth Cornish SEMMENSmarried Alfred John HOSKING 1906 Birkenhead R.D. You may find John Vine SEMMENS also somewhere in Canada and, if so, that might tell us exactly who he married. Some information on Jane Quick LAWRY to follow in my next.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2009 1:34:20 GMT -5
Jane Quick LAWRY - on first looks it would appear that the only two of this name found in FreeBMD might be cousins.
1891 Census - Mawnan Lower Tregarne Farm Thomas LAWRY, head, mar, 30, farmer, Morvah Emma do, wife, mar, 27, St Buryan Thomas P do., son, 3, Mawnan Jane Q do., daur, 1, Mawnan Elizabeth do., daur, 1 mth, Mawnan
St Buryan Marriages 1 Mar 1887 by Banns Thomas Lawry 26 batchelor Farmer of Mawnan (Father: John Lawry, Farmer) Emma Pearce 23 spinster of Trevider, S. Buryan (Father: Josiah Pearce, Farmer) Witnesses: Josiah Pearce, Parismas Jelbart
FreeBMD Thomas Percy LAWRY 1888 Falmouth R.D. March Qtr Vol 5c Page 169
Jane Quick LAWRY 1889 Falmouth R.D. December Qtr Vol 5c Page 163
Elizabeth LAWRY Birth not registered or registered with different spelling
1891 Census - Morvah Trevowan John Q LAWRY, head, mar, 28, farmer, Morvah Rebecca J G do., wife, mar, 28, Paul Jane Q do., daur, 3 mths, Morvah Wilhelmina Osborn, sister-in-law, unm., Sancreed
HERE IS ANOTHER POSSIBLE CONNECTION ;D
Sancreed Marriages 5 Mar 1890 by Licence John Quick Lawry 27 Farmer of Morvah (Father: John Lawry, Farmer) Rebecca Jane Glasson Osborne 27 of Sancreed (Father: John Charles Osborne, Farmer) Witnesses: John Charles Osborne, Wim. Glasson
FreeBMD Jane Quick LAWRY 1891 Penzance R.D. March Qtr Vol 5c Page 274
Morvah PR Transcript 1892 4 Oct Sydney Osborne c/o John Quick (Farmer) & Rebecca Jane Glasson Lawry of Chypraze 1893 22 Oct John Seymour c/o John Quick (Farmer) & Rebecca Jane Glasson Lawry of Chypraze
I suspect that the two grooms above (John and Thomas LAWRY) will be sons from the following marriage:-
31st January 1860 Zennor by Licence John LAWRY of full age, bachelor, farmer of Morvah (father: Thomas LAWRY, farmer) Jane QUICK of full age, spinster of Zennor (father: John QUICK, farmer) Witnesses:- John QUICK, Jane LAWRY
Will close now so that I can work further on these families.
Will post further results a little later.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2009 2:09:33 GMT -5
The next piece of the puzzle regarding Jane Quick LAWRY. 1871 Census - Morvah Village of Tregamminion John LAWRY, head, mar, 43, farmer, St Just Jane do., wife, mar, 40, Zennor Thomas do., son, 10, scholar, Morvah John Quick do., son, 8, scholar, Morvah Jane Quick LAWRY, mother, widow, 81, annuitant, St Just Jane P LAWRY, sister, unm., 38, visitor, St Just Eliza J OSBORN, 13, visitor, Paul This shows that Thomas and John Quick LAWRY were brothers with each naming a daughter Jane Quick LAWRY. Zennor 31st January 1860 by Licence John LAWRY of full age, bachelor, farmer of Morvah (father: Thomas LAWRY, farmer) Jane QUICK of full age, spinster of Zennor (father: John QUICK, farmer) Witnesses:- John QUICK, Jane LAWRY Penzance Wesleyan Circuit Baptisms 21 Jul 1827 John c/o Thomas (Miner) & Jane Lawry of Truthwell, St. Just b. 7 Jun 1827 Jane d/o John (farmer) and Mary QUICK bp. 10th October 1830 Zennor I am yet to determine the marriage of Thomas and Jane LAWRY although it may have been the 1816 St Just marriage of Thomas to Jane PENROSE. Will pursue that one soon. The parents of Jane QUICK:- From Morvah BT's John QUICK m. Mary USTICK 23rd December 1811 Jane was the youngest child of this couple. Will now update my database and will post more information as I find it. Might have gotten away from your original query a little but I figure you will want this at some stage anyway. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2009 6:51:11 GMT -5
I can now confirm that the parents of John LAWRY (m. Jane QUICK at Zennor in 1830) were the following:- St Just in Penwith Marriages 4 Jun 1816 Thomas Lawry bach. of this parish Jane Penrose spin. of this parish [mark] Witnesses: Thomas Penrose, Thomas Tregear Their youngest daughter (sister to John) was Nanny Penrose LAWRY. William QUICK bp. Towednack 5th October 1834 s/o James and Mary married Nanny Penrose LAWRY in 1860. I am not yet able to positively identify Thomas LAWRY but I do know that he died sometime between the 1841 and 1851 Census. His wife, Jane PENROSE, is a little easier. Jane d/o Thomas and Jane PENROSE bp. 24th January 1790 at St Just Thomas PENROSE of St Just married Jane ELLIS 5th June 1784 at St Levan Back to St Levan time again! ;D I would be interested if anyone can identify just which Jane ELLIS this is. More to follow.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 18, 2009 7:01:08 GMT -5
For those with interests at St Buryan and particulary with interests in the HARVEY family of St Buryan I have this:- Thomas LAWRY married Emma PEARCE St Buryan Marriages 1 Mar 1887 by Banns Thomas Lawry 26 batchelor Farmer of Mawnan (Father: John Lawry, Farmer) Emma Pearce 23 spinster of Trevider, S. Buryan (Father: Josiah Pearce, Farmer) Witnesses: Josiah Pearce, Parismas Jelbart Josiah PEARCE married Elizabeth HARVEY at St Buryan 28th November 185 Elizabeth was daughter of Robert HARVEY and Elizabeth (nee HUTCHENS) who married at St Buryan 8th December 1827. The family farmed at TREWOOFE, St Buryan but had moved to Pendrea by 1850. Robert HARVEY of Pendrea, age 56, was buried at St Buryan 26th October 1850. It would appear his age is incorrect as the only possible Robert seems to have been baptised at St Buryan 4th December 1799 s/o John and Lydia (nee EDMONDS) HARVEY. One of the daughters of Josiah and Elizabeth PEARCE was Lydia Harvey PEARCE. All I have to do now is to update the marriages of Thomas and John Quick LAWRY which I posted in an earlier note. After that it is a matter of determining just which of the two Jane Quick LAWRYs married Edmund James SEMMENS about 1814 in Canada. In either case the ancestry goes back as described in these last few notes. CT
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