|
Post by Mal on Feb 9, 2009 7:22:45 GMT -5
I have found through the Lanyon line ( very difficult to piece together because of all the rubbish in internet) a tenuous link to one Roger de Linyeine and Agnes Beauchamp. I found one reference on Internet stating the following "In 1215 the Curia Regis Rolls give Agnes Beauchamp, the wife of Roger de Linyeine pleading for a third part of two acres of land at Lanion that she claimed as a dowry on Hugh de Bello Campo." Does this suggest that Agnes was a daughter of Hugh Beauchamp/Bello Campo? Where can I find out more on medieval stuff? Most of the stuff in internet is realy inaccurate and poor! What are the Curia Regis Rolls?
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:11:24 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by newlyn on Feb 9, 2009 12:13:55 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by trencrom on Feb 14, 2009 2:45:19 GMT -5
Hi Malcolm, Curia Regis rolls are records of the King's Court. The ones I have seen date from the time of kings John and Henry III. They are given in the original Latin. "Beauchamp" and "Bello Campo" are the same name as you say. There were several different medieval Beauchamp families though. One line were sometime earls of Warwick. Another were in Somerset, from memory at a place called Hatch. Another, much less prominent line were at Binnerton in Crowan parish in Cornwall. You will find the last-named of these in Vivian's visitations which is available online. From memory there is a link to it elsewhere in the forum. Was the land in question dowry, or dower? If the latter then Hugh may have actually been a prior husband to Agnes. Dower -- a widow's share of a deceased's husband's estate -- was calculated at one third of his holdings under common law. For good medieval English sources on the net I suggest you should check out the following: www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/Hope this helps Trencrom
|
|
|
Post by Mal on Mar 7, 2009 15:22:38 GMT -5
Thanks Trencrom, I am still trying to find out whether this was a dower or a dowry and I am waiting for someone to get back to me on it, hence my not replying sooner.... these records would have been in Latin no doubt and I can't find the original anywhere so I can't judge for myself what the exact word is.
The record I quoted is from someone else who I can't track however on tribal pages there is a "Cornanglian" family tree that include Agnes Beauchamp and expand a little on her background. I am beginning to think it may be a dower, as why would there be a claim of a dowry "on" Hugh de Bello Campo and why did he not show up to the hearing? All a bit vague and confusing.
|
|
|
Post by lipkatatar on Feb 22, 2012 19:05:14 GMT -5
The entry in the Curia Regis Rolls for 1215/16 makes clear that Agnes was claiming her widow's portion of the land in question.
"Agnes que fuit uxor Rogeri de Leniein optulit se quarto die versus Hugonem de Bello Campo de placito tercie partis duarum acrarum terre cum pertinentiis in Lennein, quam ipsa clamat in dotem versus eum: et Hugo non venit etc., et summonitio etc. Judicium. Tercia pars capiatur in manum ..." [CRR, John 15-16, C.T.Fowler (Ed.), (Public Records Office, 1971),p.193.]
Unfortunately I have only found a snippet view of the CCR entry, so this may not be the full entry. It is not clear who Agnes' first husband was. It could have been a member of the Beauchamp family, possibly the father of Hugh, or it could have been someone unconnected with the Beauchamp's whose land had subequently come into the hands of the Beauchamps. It is difficult to imagine that a widow related to the Beauchamp family would have to take legal action over a fraction of an acre - but this dispute probably referred to the much larger "Cornish Acre". The fact that the 1244 agreement involves 4 ferlings of land seems to support this interpretation.
"At Lanzaveton (Launceston) 1 month from Easter day, in the 28th year of King Henry (1 May 1244). Before Henry de Tracy, Gilbert de Preston and Robert de Haya, justices itinerant, and other liegemen of our lord the King then there present. Between John de Linyeine (Lanyon in Madron), plaintiff, and Hugh de Bello Campo (Beauchamp) [tenant] whom Stephen de Bello Campo vouched to warranty, & who warranted to him 3 ferlings of land in Botuolo bichan (Little Bosullow in Madron) & 1 ferling of land in Drek bichan. John acknowledged the whole of the said land to be the right of Hugh. For this Hugh granted to John the 3 Ferlings in Botuolo bichan, to have and to hold to John $ his heirs of Stephen and his heirs for ever, rendering therefor 40 1/2 (?) at the four terms of St Andrew (30 Nov.), Mid Lent, the Nativity of St John the Baptist (24 June), & St Michael (29 Sept.) for all services & demand. Moreover John granted for himself & his heirs that the water which runs from Retsic (Rissick) to Netcurran shall be a free stream by the land of the said John in Retsic as far as the mill of the said Stephen at Netcuran, as in contained in a charter made between Roger father of the said John and Hugh de Bello Campo, without hindrance from John or his heirs for ever." [Cornwall Feet of Fines, Volume 1, Joseph Hambley Rowe (Ed), (Devon & Cornwall Record Society, Exeter, 1914), pp.39/40.]
Hugh and Stephen de Bello Campo are probably the ones appearing at the top of the Visitations entry for the Beauchamps of Binnerton. Unfortunately the Visitations entry starts with Hugh, so we do not know who his parents were.
Best regards, Jim
|
|
|
Post by dangereuse on Jun 25, 2016 15:07:59 GMT -5
Good afternoon,
I see this has already being responded to, but to clarify. Dowry was the property an heiress brought to a marriage, dower was the lands assigned to support the wife in the event her husband died first (quite high at this time). Due to the loss of the Angevin empire and the lands in what are now France many dower properties had to be reassigned at this time and as the King charged a fee it could be costly and subsequently dealt with in at least 2 clause Magna Carta in 1216 and subsequent re-issues.
Kind regards
David
|
|
|
Post by sarnie on Apr 24, 2023 8:55:01 GMT -5
I just found out that I belong to this family line
|
|
|
Post by josiah on May 31, 2023 2:57:27 GMT -5
im a direct male descendant of Roger de Linyeine’s male line, and im really confused, i researched my family history and my father and his father etc, and when it led to Roger, it said he was born 1215 and died 1315 and was married to Agnes Beauchamp and she was born in 1200
but this site says she was trying to get her previous husbands land in 1215? pls clarify, im very confused.
|
|
|
Post by trencrom on May 31, 2023 21:39:35 GMT -5
What record is it that you have seen that says that Roger was born in 1200? Or that he died 100 years later? Or that Agnes was born in 1215?
I've had another look at this thread, and would now say the following: What we can definitively say, as per the previous post by lipkatatar, is that a contemporary legal record dated 1215 conclusively shows that Hugh de Beauchamp was living in that year, that Agnes was also living in that year and that she was concerned at the time with her dower rights, which was a widow's entitlement. The record says "Agnes who WAS the wife" of Roger, which indicates that Roger was now dead.
How I am therefore now reading this:
There may have been NO prior husband for Agnes, other than Roger. It could be that the Beauchamps were the superior lords for Lanyon in Madron and that the allocation of dower there to Agnes upon Roger's death would have had to have come from them. IF Agnes was a Beauchamp by birth, then this land COULD have come to Roger by marriage to Agnes, but that is NOT what the text of the 1215 record in question is saying. As previously noted, the reference is to dower, not dowry.
The pedigree of Lanyon of Lanyon in Vivian's visitations begins with John, not with Roger (Vivian, p 284). Agnes is not mentioned therein. She also does not appear in the pedigree of Beauchamp of Binnerton either (Vivian, p 22), which begins with Hugh, almost certainly the same Hugh, who according to Vivian was also living in 1185.
Trencrom
|
|
|
Post by josiah on Aug 7, 2023 14:08:22 GMT -5
didn’t get the notification, i am now seeing this. so apparently more research showed roger was born 1180 and died 1215, so yes the land thing was because roger died, and he got a knights fee and was young so he probably died in a war. it’s cool to find out more about family especially direct ancestry. and that my family has fought in wars for over 1000 years, and my family came to america in 1678 and my direct ancestors served in wars even as late afghanistan, i myself will also fight in a war this year. also fun fact agnes is a direct descendant of the viking “the dane” who invaded normandy over 1000 years before the allies, and who was one of the first vikings to become Christianized.
|
|