Percy Renfree b 1889

[sarahpatterson1]

Can anyone help with another query?

When you look at the 1901 census you will see him as a son to Henry and Rosina Renfree. The dates would have her at over 50 at the time of his birth. Is this possible?

Sarah

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Sarah - I don't have time right now to look into this properly but your brief outline suggests it more likely that Percy was the illegitimate son of one of Rosina's daughters.

There has been some discussion on similar lines in another thread just recently.

I work on the probability that 48 was the maximum age for women to be having children although there may well have been a few exceptions.

Will try and look into this more closely tonight - IF we have a quiet day.

[Cornish Terrier]

Hi Sarah - have just had a look at the 1891 Census and I would have to say that henry and Rosina are certainly not the parents of Percy!

Henry at 52 is no problem but Rosina at age 54 in 1891 would have been 52 when young Percy was born and I would consider that highly unlikely.

There was also Cordelia who was then age 9 which means Rosina would have been about 45 when she was born.

Quite often when I have found a situation like this I have also found the mother living at home.

It may well be that the mother was not at home on that particular night.

However there is one candidate living at home - Bessie who was then age 23.

Hmmmm - I have now had a look at the 1901 Census!

I would suggest that your initial note about Percy must have been referring to the 1891 Census when young Percy was age 2 and certainly recorded as son of Henry and Rosina.

In 1901 Henry is decased as wife Rose is listed as a widow.

And Percy is here recorded as 'Grandson'.

3 Victoria Place, Penzance

Rose RENFREE, head, wid., 64, St Hilary
Cordelia do., daur., unm., 19, charwoman, Penzance
Percy do., grandson, 12, Penzance
Jane Pryor SINCOCK, visitor, mar., 51, Helston

This 'visitor' might possibly turn out to be a sister but I have not tried to investigate that.

Now - re-thinking my initial comments about Percy being illegitimate and Bessie being the mother.

Bessie does not appear in 1901 although that does not necessarily mean a lot.

It may mean that she had married, was now deceased, or was simply elsewhere.

The other possibility is that percy was the child of a married son.

I have seen instances in the past where a young child was left with it's grandparents while the parents themselves had ventured off to America, Australia etc.

In some cases the parents never returned and the child was brought up from then on by the grandparents.

But the time-period is probably past an era where that likelihood may have been common.

For the moment I am going to stick with Bessie as the possible mother.

CT

[Cornish Terrier]

Sarah - checking the 1881 Census and there are two further daughters who might be considered as possible mothers of young Percy.

Sarah J was 16 and would have been about 24 when Percy was born or there was also daughter Rosa who was then 10 and so would have been about 18 when Percy was born.

Do you know much more about this family and what happened to the children of Henry and Rosina?

[white]

Hi Roy White here.
Sarah does now have all of the info on the children and also much of the Remphrey/Renfree line back to at least 1710.
However, any additional details always welcome. Thank you very much for your efforts, Roy

[gandolf]

Well, CT's findings in the 1901 census would seem to have resolved the problem in the case of this family.

However, while as mentioned it is rare, it is certainly possible for women to have childen post the age of 50. (And I am talking here about the past - pre artificial medical assistance! ;D)

When I was in my late teens and early twenties, one of my good mates at the time celebrated his 21st birthday. Not unusual I know , but his parents at the time were in their mid 70's. I know for certain that his mother was over 50 when he was conceived (it being a point of which my mate was peversely proud) and I believe she was around 52 when he was born. He was around 20 years younger than all his older brothers & sisters.

I have come across a few other examples, both personally and through family research. From what I have seen, when a women has a baby when aged 50 or more, more often than not she has been having babies well into her forties, and the post 50 baby is often only a few years (e.g. five or six) after the next oldest.

In rarer occasions you get the scenario like my mate - some 20 years between the siblings.

In every event you can be pretty much certain of one thing - the mother having babies post the age of 50 is without a doubt having a change of life baby. One last, unexpected fertile period which results in an equally unexpected child.

[sarahpatterson1]

Thank you all for you answers.

He was always known to my mum as Uncle Percy.

Perhaps looking at his birth certificate may give the answer.

Sarah