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Post by ljmckinnon on Nov 21, 2008 9:51:41 GMT -5
Returning to the Trewhella and Chinn families.... I am happy to answer any questions and give you a reasonably complete account of the descendants of Matthew Trewhella in Australia, but would prefer to do this via a more private method... As to the background of Jane Chinn, I have been looking into her putative maternal family in Gorran. The online IGI lists a marriage at St. Goran on 2nd January 1785 between one Charles Oliver and a Catherine Kevel, who would appear to be Martha Oliver's (Chinn) parents. There is also a family pedigree which gives a worryingly long list of siblings - including Martha - over a period of more than two decades. Charles's surname also appears under the form "Olver", and this is the form given in another online source for this marriage record which gives: Charles Olver, h., & Catherine Kevel One thing that strikes me about the Chinn, Oliver/Olver, Kevel line is the is the apparent non-Cornishness of these names - whether they be Anglo-saxon or Anglo-norman. A family of interlopers perhaps? If you could provide further confirmation (or refutation!) that these are indeed Matthew Trewhella's maternal ancestors, then I would be very grateful, as I would be for anything further that you could find on the Chinn's and the fates of Matthew's siblings and their descendants. Regards, Leigh
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2008 12:01:26 GMT -5
Hi Leigh. Quite happy to deal with your information off-line and it is quite sensible. There are two easy ways to do this and are available to you from this particular message. If you look to the left, under my avatar (the picture) you will see a couple of icons. One of these is for PM (Private Message) and the other for Email so choose whichever you prefer and away you go. (Just hover the mouse pointer over each to see which one is which.) Clicking on the Email icon will open up your email program with my email address inserted and clicking on PM will open a form for you to send a private message via this site. OLIVER - you will find that name quite early throughout Cornwall but its origins there are unknown to me just now. CHINN - it is looking very much like John and Martha must be the correct family. Jane was consistent in stating her birthplace as Phillack and a search of the Census records prior to her marriage show no other Jane CHINN who could be the one to marry John TREWHELLA in 1850. I have been working on some other stuff for a while but will take a quick look now to see if I can identify which John CHINN was involved before I cook some tucker and watch a movie. Hopefully have something in my next note. CT BTW - don't be too concerned about a family being spread out over two decades - I have one TREWELLA family who had about 18 kids and you just ain't gonna fit them all into 20 years!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2008 12:22:05 GMT -5
Leigh - I have found the Death for James STEPHENS, husband of Catherine TREWHELLA. As you recall Catherine was the sister of Matthew and came to Australia also. James STEPHENS married Catherine TREWHELLA 3rd October 1889 at St John's Church, Latrobe Street, Melbourne James died at Northcote in 1911 age 63. Catherine died at Brunswick in 1921 age 66. I can find only the one child for them:- James Henry STEPHENS born at Northcote in 1896 died at Elsternwick in 1938 age 42. I don't know if he married and with a name like STEPHENS it will be difficult to track down but perhaps I should attempt it some time. James (senior) was born at St Just in Penwith about 1848 son of John STEPHENS and Christiana MICHELL who were married at St Just 14th February 1829. John and Christiana had seven children that I have found in the Census but I will need to pursue them later on. And now to try and track down John CHINN.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2008 12:58:40 GMT -5
A little more on John and Martha CHINN.
His age in the 1851 and 1861 Census infers that John CHINN was born about 1801 or 1802 at Phillack.
The options are 1798, 1802, 1804 or 1805 as far as baptisms are concerned.
1798 was, I think, too early 1802 was son of William and Mary 1804 was son of John and Mary 1805 was son of George and Alice
1805 can be discounted on the basis that John never named a son George nor a daughter Alice although he appears not to have named a daughter Mary either.
1804 is probably too late based on the consistency of his age in the Census.
1802 therefore is the most likely and John did name his first son William.
In that case we are looking at:-
John son of William and Mary CHING bp. 21st November 1802 at Phillack
William CHIN married Mary THOMAS 19th October 1793 at Phillack
I will follow up on the rest of the children of William and Mary a little later.
John CHINN was buried at Phillack 27th April 1870 age 69 of Ventonleague
Martha CHINN was buried at Phillack 27th July 1867 age 63 of Lethleans
More later.
CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 21, 2008 18:05:34 GMT -5
A CHIN/CHINN/CHING update. Becoming most peculiar is this little lot! I checked my Handbook of Cornish Surnames for a little information on the name and came up with - ZILCH! The name is not mentioned although there are records of it going back to the 1600's in Cornwall. There are other sources for the origins/meanings of Cornish Surnames including at least one mentioned on this site so I will have to look into that. What I have discovered so far is that, as in previous note, John CHINN appears to have been the son of William who married Mary THOMAS at Phillack in 1793. Now I found a burial for William at Phillack in 1846 where his age was givnen as 77. This equates nicely with the age of 70 as recorded in the 1841 Census. (Remembering that the age of adults in 1841 was usually rounded down to the nearest five.) This combined with the names of his children gives us the following baptism:- William s/o Walter and Mary CHIN bp. 9th April 1869 at Phillack And here is where things seem to go awry. I can find no marriage for Walter and Mary in Cornwall and indeed can find very few of the name Walter in the UK which indicates the possibility that this following marriage must be the one:- Walter CHIN married Mary BLACKMORE 5th September 1761 at Georgeham, Devon BTW - William was the only child baptised to Walter and Mary that I can find in Cornwall. Honour d/o Walter and Mary CHIN was baptised at Georgeham, Devon 4th march 1762 This is the only other baptism I can find for a child of Walter and Mary in the UK! In addition to this are at least a couple of CHINNs at Phillack who appear likely to have been children of Walter and Mary and from their age at death whey would fit into the gap between the 1762 baptism of Honour and the 1769 baptism of William. Whether Walter was a Devon lad or born in Cornwall is difficult to tell at this stage but I will continue my search. All for now. CT
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Post by gandolf on Nov 21, 2008 20:28:53 GMT -5
This family would seem likely to be the same one that I have "some" information for in my records.
Hannah Hollow (sojourner) m. 10 Aug 1793 at Phillack to Walter Chinn. They had 7 children at Phillack between 1794 & 1811
Hannah Hollow was baptised 7 Sep 1768 at Zennor, dau of Edward Hollow and Hannah Waters. Edward & Hannah married 1764 at Zennor and their children were baptised at Zennor, then later at St. Ives. It appears that Hannah was working "across the bay" at Phillack at the time of her marriage.
Walter Chinn was apparently born circa 1773 (may well have been earlier), presumably at Phillack since he is seems to be of the parish when he married, and died 1840 at Phillack. (CHINN Walter Jun 1840 Redruth/9/153)
His father is reputed to have been Walter also - sounds like it is the same family as Walter Chinn and Mary Blackmore that you mention above.
My information on Walter Chinn is rather more vague, because I have been unable to verify any of it personally. However, the Hollow family researcher who includes the information on his website (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~chollow/d0001/g0000079.html#I3366) has proven to be consistently reliable where I have been able to verify his information.
Even with the sparce details that I have, I suspect that Hannah Hollow's husband is also indeed a son of Walter Chinn & Mary Blackmore.
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Post by ljmckinnon on Nov 21, 2008 20:34:29 GMT -5
I just found an ancestry.com family tree which seems to support your speculations about the Chinns and Devon, as whoever researched it (and they appear to have done so with some care) came to the same conclusions: awt.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:636524&id=I29602072On the Oliver side, I noticed that the name Kevel (Kevell, Kivill, and a million other variations) also looks to have origins in Devon and Wiltshire and to be of Anglo-norman extraction - that is, according to one possibly dodgy surname history website. It wouldn't surprise me if the same dynamic was at work here as is apparently the case with the Chinns. At the moment I am sadly limited in my resources for chasing this stuff down, so I am grateful for every little bit you turn up. These past few days have really opened up some interesting new branches and avenues in the story of my Cornish ancestry which would otherwise have remained obstinately closed to me. (I will also get something together on my side of the family and send it to you via email sometime this weekend.) Regards, Leigh
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 22, 2008 4:55:09 GMT -5
Gandolf - Walter CHINN was buried at Phillack 9th April 1840 age 67 of Church Town so the birth of around 1773 is pretty close to the mark. Leigh - I am very happy you decided to join this site for two reasons. 1. You have been able to find information that, as you say, might have eluded you for quite some time otherwise. 2. I've found another 'cousin' and we can help each other fill in quite a number of information gaps. I understand your position and am quite happy to offer whatever help I can to help you out. Just keep on firing in the queries and if you find something that even I get a little stuck with we have a number of people here who are excellent when it comes to assisting others. Sometimes it just needs someone 'on the outside' to see something you or I might miss. I will look forward to your email and please tell me what additional information you require on the Trewhella side. And I will try to see if I can locate any further detail on Matthew's sister Martha who married John BENNETT. Also want to see if I can locate some death/burial details for Catherine STEPHENS - might be something available online now as quite a few of the Cemeteries have gone that way with their records. Hope to have a little more soon. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 22, 2008 12:43:30 GMT -5
So far cannot find the Cemetery records for James or Catherine STEPHENS so it is possible the records for whichever Cemetery they are in have not been placed online.
As for Matthew's sister Martha Jane BENNETT - cannot find any children for them and cannot find the family in the 1881 Census.
Also appears to be no sign of them in Victoria which is where I might have expected them to be had they left Cornwall given Martha had both a sister and a brother here.
And no sign of them having children in South Australia.
With no death/burial record found in Cornwall and also not found in the 1881 Wales Census it would appear that we need to think about South Africa, New Zealand or the US as possible places for them to have gone.
CT
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Post by gandolf on Nov 23, 2008 0:38:49 GMT -5
CT, Thanks for the burial date for Walter Chinn. All helps fill in the gaps as you say. Just discovered that since I plugged Walter into my records that I had located the Phillack OPC site including the burial records. Who knows, at some point I might have gotten around to reviewing the data. Interestingly, although Walter's wife Hannah would seem to be the Hannah Chinn who died Jun quarter 1842 Redruth District, she does not seem to have been buried at Phillack despite living there a year earlier during the census period.
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