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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 10:02:39 GMT -5
If I understand correctly what you have outlined then it can't work. According to the 1851 Census Elizabeth was born about 1823 but then she died in 1878 and was recorded as being age 59 which puts her birth around 1819. Other problem is that Alexander and Elizabeth would have been married about 1844 with son Thomas baptised in 1845.
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Post by londoner on Nov 4, 2008 11:01:05 GMT -5
You're right of course - I was looking at Alex and missed that Thomas and WIlliam were older! Back to Paul to look for an Elizabeth who didnt marry anyone else! I know this is not at Paul but in 1834 Thomas Kessell of Paul, father Daniel was married at Paul and given that Elizabeth & Alex had a child Daniel and another Annie Lide Im pretty sure this must be her: 1841 Census: Western Green Madron,1,Daniel Kessel,46,,Ag. Lab.,In county, ,,Ann Kessel,,46,,Ireland, ,,Elizabeth Kessel,,20,,In county, ,,Mary Kessel,,13,,In county, ,,Lucy Lyde,,6m,,In county still doesn't explain the lack of marriage though
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 11:15:18 GMT -5
A query - was the reference to Elizabeth KESSELL being the wife of Alexander BOSANKO dated? i.e. Was there an associated date or anything else specifying that it was the Alexander of the 1840's? I ask because Alexander's son Alexander also married someone named Elizabeth sometime before the 1871 Census and wonder if the reference might rather be to this later event. And another spanner in the works - I have just located the following marriage in FreeBMD (don't know how it got by me before) :- 1840 March Qtr Vol 9 Page 261 Redruth Alexander BESANKO married one of the following Elizabeth BONDS Elizabeth CHEGWIDDEN Elizabeth CURRIE There are a couple of problems associated with this. Firstly it destroys my theory about Johanna THOMAS but that is just a theory at the moment albeit with some merit given the known facts. Secondly there were other Alexanders about. Thirdly there is the problem that the first known child to Alexander and Elizabeth is Thomas at St Just in 1845. But it is a marriage for Alexander to Elizabeth. That later one - 1869 to Elizabeth Jane FIDOCK is what I just found. There goes another idea.
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Post by londoner on Nov 4, 2008 11:42:14 GMT -5
We must have been writing at the same time - go back to my previous
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Post by londoner on Nov 4, 2008 11:48:58 GMT -5
Unsourced reference to the marriage being June 1844. and that was the one to Phillip Charles Francis at Madron
Different folk give different parents for Elizabeth - William & Jenifer or Stephen but I still prefer Daniel. And they all have death 1855 Helston which we know from previous posts should be St Just 1859. This new feature on A....y of linking with other peoples trees is leading some people to accepting info without checking I fear.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 4, 2008 12:59:27 GMT -5
I seem to have developed a habit of 'crossing notes' with both yourself and Cornishmaid. Oh Well. Just had a look at that Elizabeth Kessel marriage in IGI and the reference states her father as EDMUND and her age as 19. Now I tend to agree with you that the wife of Alexander is very likely Elizabeth daughter of Daniel Kessel for a number of reasons. Alexander and Elizabeth actually named two sons Daniel - I found another buried in 1850 at St Just but no baptism as yet. the 'Lyde/Lide' name comes into the picture. In 1841 Elizabeth d/o Daniel was 20 and in the 1844 marriage Elizabeth Kessel was 19 and therefore born about 1825. In the 1851 Census Elizabeth w/o Alexander was age 27 (I think) but I worked her birth based on that to about 1823 yet when she died in 1857 her age was given as 57. All the points are in favour of the daughter of Daniel Kessel having married Alexander Bosanko - just need to find the darned marriage. And your point regarding 'A' is something I know a little about. When I was in the US back in '94 I went to Salt Lake City and did a fair bit of research. Amongst the stuff I copied was information on my family from 'A' File. I had a good look through it when I got back home and found numerous glaring errors. One of those attributed someone to the wrong parents and this was perpetuated through other documents and other contacts I had over ensuing years. But I knew it was wrong because I had a copy of at least one Will to prove it! But don't get me going on that type of stuff or you will never shut me up. BTW have you had a look at the DUNSTAN stuff that has found it's way into the Carlotta DEMORY thread??
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Post by alfiepanda on Nov 4, 2008 18:49:23 GMT -5
Hi all...well I can see that this is not a no action group!. Maybe as a start, it would be best if I let you have what I have. This is is the form of a .xls file and covers every event I have found out back to 1621. One of the difficult aspects is that there are many Alexander Bosankos and I have been down several false trails! However, I'm pretty sure that what there is now is OK. i have also started a website and you are most welcome to have a look if of interest. i will continue to add what I know and it seems it could be the labour of a lifetime! The url is :http://www.myheritage.com/site-36673002/kistell-web-site. If you want the spreadsheet, just let me have your email addresses and I'll send it off with pleasure. Then can address any issues that result. regards Tony
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 5, 2008 1:16:54 GMT -5
G'day Tony - seems I (with the help of Londoner) have hijacked your initial query. But you did mention Alexander and that is what we are working on - apart from the fact there ends up being a connection with one of my Trewhella families. Regarding your spreadsheet - yes I would welcome a copy please. Below my avatar at left you will see a couple of small icons and if you place your mouse cursor over them you will see that one is for email. Just click on that to open the email address form and you can attach the spreadsheet to it from there. Will continue to try and track down this Alexander and any help would be welcome. And please let us know where we can help you. CT
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Post by alfiepanda on Nov 5, 2008 15:32:44 GMT -5
Hi again
I have sent your the .xls file and mentioned a couple of points regarding the origins of the surname BOSANKO that I picked up. One theory is that it stems from BOSNIA where in the Bosnian language, BOSANKO means "woman". Another is that BOSANKO is a common surname in the UKRAINE and I distictly remember as a small boy of about 5 or 6 my old autie Melia telling me that she heard that the line came from somewhere in central europe. Now if they were in Cornwall in late 1500s then I can't imagine why they would go to UK from european mainland and indeed how they managed it!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 6, 2008 9:33:46 GMT -5
Have located some more information of interest regarding the two Elizabeth Kessells and I will start with the one who married Philip Charles FRANCIS. I tried for quite some time today to locate them in the 1851 Census but to no avail - however I did locate Philip in 1861. BUT he was no longer married to Elizabeth! Philip Charles FRANCIS married Jane KENDALL in 1853 and according to the Census he had been born around 1823/4. It would appear that Elizabeth died either towards the end of 1844 (which would have been a short time after her marriage) or else in 1852. Unless they can be found in the 1851 Census (Philip at least) it is very difficult to know just when Elizabeth died. But I am tempted to think that it was 1844 as there currently seems to be no evidence of children. As I posted in a previous note the IGI shows this Elizabeth as having been 19 when she married in 1844 and her father was Edmund. Elizabeth d/o Edmund (gardener) and Mary Ann Kessell of Trewarrack was baptised at Gulval 14th February 1827 And now for the Elizabeth who married Alexander BOSANKO and who I believe was the daughter of Daniel and Ann. Elizabeth d/o Daniel and Ann KESTLE of Bosolliack baptised 13th May 1821 at Madron Daniel s/o Daniel and Ann KESTLE of Trythal in Gulval baptised 27th January 1826 at Madron (He married Mary Ann PAUL at Madron 21sth March 1847) Mary d/o Daniel and Ann KESSELL of Bossolack baptised 15th April 1828 at Gulval Cannot find a baptism for Lucy but having taken another look at the Census it would appear that shoe may not have been a daughter of Daniel and Ann but, perhaps, a niece. Her name appears to be Lucy LYDE and not Lucy Lyde KESSEL. Still haven't found the marriage to Alexander but at least this is a little more than what we had. Also cannot find a marriage for Daniel and Ann.
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Post by londoner on Nov 6, 2008 10:44:33 GMT -5
Did you notice that Ann was b Ireland according to 1841 census - so maybe the marriage was not in Cornwall.
Also: son Daniel might possibly be the one who died age 23, buried 10 Aug 1849 Penzance -Pauper of Alverton St ( might be worth checking if Mary Ann remarried)
Also: Ann Kessell buried 20 Jan 1842 Madron age 49 Also: 10 Mar 1851 Daniel Hepsell (Kessell) widower, father Thomas married Nancy Beard, widow, father John Richards at Uny Lelant
Also: 20 Mar 1791 St Levan Daniel Kestle s/o Thomas & Elizabeth
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Post by londoner on Nov 6, 2008 11:15:37 GMT -5
Yes to my own question:
Mary Ann Kessell widow (father Nathaniel Bramble) age 35 married 10 Oct 1852 Madron to James Wood (44) batchelor. yes she was already a widow when she married Daniel K. Previous marriage was to Edward Paul 13-Oct 1838, Madron
1851 Census she has her mother living with her and an interesting transcription: Mary Bramble 77 Daniel Fissell 2 Emma Paul Fissell 11 Mary A Fissell 35 Mary A Fissell 3
1861 census has her with three children (all enumerated as Wood) but husband James absent Emma Paul Wood 21, Mary Ann Wood 13, Daniel Wood 12 James Wood 7
and 18 Dec 1864 Mary Ann Kessell age 17 father Daniel (printer) married Samuel Hawes (19) father John (shoemaker)
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Post by londoner on Nov 6, 2008 11:54:07 GMT -5
I think I found Alex & Elizabeth: Marriages Redruth 1840 Q1 9, 261 Alexander Besanco Redruth 1840 Q1 9,270 Elizabeth Kestle Dont know why they have different page numbers but I have seen it before. I guess we need our friend to visit the Redruth centre to check it for us Sorry about your Joanna theory CT it is very convincing but as you said there were other Alexanders around.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 6, 2008 13:11:47 GMT -5
Yes I had noticed that and thought the same - even tried the impossible ;D and had a look at IGI for a possible marriage in Ireland. (I think I also tried an 'all County' search too.) I already had this one in the database and have had it in the back of my mind as a possibility. The 1840 Marriage - interesting. Page 270 has two males and four females. Page 261 has three males and three females. And so many darned Elizabeths! It is, of course, a possibility but there are some issues to be resolved. The imbalance of gender on page 270 indicates the possibility/probability that page 269 or 271 might have the balance. Page 269 has four males and four females Page 271 has what appears to be a single marriage. There is another possibility for that imbalance on page 270 especially as three of the females are all named Elizabeth - this 'could' be a third marriage for Elizabeth and she has been indexed three times. (under maiden name and both previous married names) If that is the case then it will not be our Elizabeth. The other problem to consider with an 1840 marriage is that there would be 4 years in which other children may have been born. STOP PRESS Do you realise the MAIN problem with the 1840 marriage, particularly as it occurred in the March Qtr Elizabeth KESSEL is still living at home at Madron with her parents Daniel and Ann in the 1841 Census. I think that might just take care of that!
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Post by londoner on Nov 6, 2008 13:43:52 GMT -5
Well spotted! I should have remembered that! ;D
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