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Post by cornishpasty on Apr 26, 2008 22:55:47 GMT -5
Trencrom,
Good to see we have another person with Shakerley links. Hopefully we can find the elusive ARUNDELL.
I have just found two ARUNDELLs on a Family Tree but I need to obtain access from the person concerned. So until I get that, I will give you a bit of ARUNDELL information I have found:
Ellen ARUNDELL b. 1274 Treloy, Cornwall d. 1374 ? England
Married: 1280 to Richard CERIZEAUX b. 1250 Colquite Manor, St Mabyn Parish, Cornwall d. 1307 at the same place.
Children:
Richard & John both b. St Mabyn, Cornwall.
Alice ARUNDELL b. 1289 Arundel, Sussex, England d. 1325 Segrave, Leicestershire, England.
Married Stephen John De SEGRAVE (b. ??) Segrave, Leicestershire, England d. 1325 Chacomb Priory, Northamptonshire
Son: John De SEGRAVE b. 1315 Norfolk, England d. 1353 Spms., Leicester, Leicestershire, England.
Married Margaret PLANTAGENET b. 1322 Norfolk, England d. 1399 Carthusian Church, Grey Friars, London.
Daughter: Elizabeth PLANTAGENET b. 1338 Abbey, Croxton, Leicestershire, England d. 1368 Epworth Isle, Axholme, Yorkshire.
Mike - I hope this information is a piece of the puzzle? There's heaps more but I can't "get" at it just yet. ;D
CP
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Post by white on Apr 27, 2008 7:17:28 GMT -5
Mike, Think you'll find Jethro (Jeff Rowe) is a St.Just lad.
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Post by myghaelangof on Apr 27, 2008 11:57:53 GMT -5
CP, many thanks for keeping an eye open for Arundell family info. Whilst I appreciate the information, I must remember that at the moment we have no idea why Bennet Shakerley and Margaret (Penberthy) named a son Arundell. Using such a distinguished name suggests a strong connection, either by marriage in previous generations (Shakerley or Penberthy - and I know nothing about Margaret pre 1605 either), or maybe an Arundell was a family friend/landlord and acted as godfather? The hope is, that by trawling through records of the Arundell family, and maybe the Courtenays, we may find a connection. I mention the Courtenays as I know they had a heavy presence in the Isles of Scilly where at least 3 Shakerleys turn up in 1651/2. In Colonel Jonathan ARUNDELLs Foot regiment of the civil war, Arundell SHAKERLEYs brother Sampson ZACHERLEY served as a Captain along with Captains Peter COURTENAY, and Reskemmer COURTENAY of Lanivet. On a completely different note, thank you Roy for reminding me Jethro is a St Just lad. I understand from sources that he now lives over Buryan way?
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Post by trencrom on Apr 27, 2008 22:14:09 GMT -5
Mike, quite right, the Arundells bought Trengwainton in about 1681. How prominent were the Penberthys at that time? IF there is a blood connection to the Arundells, perhaps it is more likely to have come through the Shakerleys rather than through the Penberthys if the latter were not that prominent.
Trencrom
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Post by trencrom on Apr 27, 2008 22:48:24 GMT -5
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Post by trencrom on Apr 27, 2008 22:52:17 GMT -5
Thanks for that marriage Ian, Its particularly interesting as Captain Sampson SHAKERLEY, purportedly Arundell SH's brother, served under Major Christopher GROSSE of Buryan in the Civil War 40 odd years later. I say purportedly as the only evidence we have is the naming of Arundell's two known children as Margaret and Bennet (Bennet SAKERLY. = Margaret PENBERTHY 1605 St.Just), and the absence of other Shakerley families. I have spent the past few weeks tracking all internet references to SHAKERLEYs in the 15th & 16th centuries in the hope of leading to St Just. However the available info just appears to link up the SHAKERLEYs in Cheshire, Derbyshire (Longstone), Northants (Aynho), Westminster and Kent (Ditton), and to the TRACY family of Gloucs. There is an ARUNDELL link to Aynho, and also to lands they leased at Newstead Abbey, Notts. Interestingly in these families no Shakerley lads called Arundel, Bennet, or Sampson. How Cornish are the names Bennet and Sampson? The most interesting link so far is the TRACY family, as I believe they also had trading contacts with BARNSTAPLE, a port as mentioned in the letter produced elsewhere on this site by Rob OATS, referring to shipping of the St Just tin ore out of St. Ives. There were Sh.s in Barnstaple mid 1600's, and these may tie in with the families in Plymouth and Topsham(Exeter) around the same period - all to do with shipping. Looks like some exploring in Devon is required. Another marriage of interest is in St. Just, that of 26 Jun 1600 John Bussavern & Margery Arundell. Of course, I believe the Arundell family owned the whole Hundred of Penwith around this time? Grosses were a gentry family in their own right with numerous holdings in the Penwith area at that time, so I am not surprised to see them intermarrying with the Arundells. I have come across them quite a few times as having dealings with my own forebears or else their extended family, although I am yet to find any Grosse or Arundell ancestry! Arundells were of course a quite large gentry family with several lines at Lanherne, Trerice, Tolverne and some other places. From memory a branch of these also settled in Madron after 1680. Which Tracys are these that you refer to? There were Tracys who were barons of Barnstaple in the 1200s, but I take it that they would be too early to be the ones you have in mind. Will be interested to hear of any future breakthroughs you have with the Shakerleys. Trencrom I see that various branches of the Arundells intermarried with both the Courtenays and the Godolphins, and also more than once with the Grosses.
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Post by gandolf on Apr 28, 2008 8:02:43 GMT -5
The greater Arundell family is not my speciality (Arundell's of Tolvern and later Truthall, Sithney is my lot). This line of Arunell's did indeed marry daughters from the Godolphin and Courtenay families. However, in poking round in odd corners, have found the following info on www.stirnet.com (before they started charging for their service ) which purports to be the family of Arundel of Menedarva (apparently sourced from either Bourkes Peerage of 1883 or Bourkes Commoners?) It does show the connection between this branch of the Arundell's and the Grosse family, although no apparent connection with Sharkeley. I don't vouch for the accuracy, since I have not checked any of it myself. Sir Robert Arundel of Menedarva (d 1580) m1. (sp) Eleanor Southwood (dau of Robert Southwood) m2. Elizabeth Clopton (dau of William Clopton of Warwick) (i) Christopher Arundel of Menedarva m. (1583) Katharine Chiverton (dau of William Chiverton of Paul) a) William Arundel of Menedarva (d 1631) m. (1608) Dorcas Grosse (d 1644, dau of E. Grosse of Camborne) ((1)) Ezekiel Arundel of Menedarva m. Margaret Bossaverne ((A))+ issue - William (bpt 11.08.1639, dsp 1692), Margery (bpt 07.04.1641) ((2)) Robert Arundel (4th son) m. Elizabeth Pendarves of Roserawe ((A)) Nicholas Arundel (d 1683) ((i)) William Arundel of Menedarva (b c1680, d 1708) m. (1700) Elizabeth Tremenheare ((a)) William Arundel of Menedarva and Trengwaiton m1. (1724) Jane Harris (dau of John Harris of Hayne) (((1))) William Arundel, later Arundel-Harris, of Menedarva and Trengwaiton (b 1725, d 1792) m1. Wilmot Daniell of Crane (((A))) William Arundel-Harris m. (1793) Mary Beard (dau of John Beard of Hall Whyddon) (((i))) William Arundel-Harris of Lifton Park (b 17.09.1794), Sheriff of Cornwall had issue m. Mary Lucinda Webber (dau of William Webber of Exmouth)
m2. Frances Nicholls (((B))) John Arundel-Harris m. Maria Sanders (((i))) issue - William, Anna, Maria, Lydia, Laura (dsp 1820)
(((C)))+ other issue - Arthur, Jane, Wilmot, Elizabeth, Wilmot, Lydia (((2))) Jane Arundel m. _ Sterner m2. (sp) _ Pendarves (Mrs. Williams) ((b))+ other issue - Elizabeth, Anne ((ii)) daughter ((3)) Catherine Arundel m. (13.04.1629) Richard Pendarves of Pendarves (b 1596, d 1674) ((4))+ other issue - William, John, Francis, James (b) John Arundel m. Anne Pendarves ((1))+ issue - John (bpt 07.09.1623), Elizabeh (bpt 23.05.1626) (c) Margery Arundel (d) Elizabeth Arundel m. David Grosse (ii) John Arundel m. (1583) Elizabeth Trenwith (iii) Jacquetta Arundel m. _ Bosawsack of Bosawsack (iv) Juliana Arundel m. _ Carew of Antonie (v)+ other issue - William, Richard, Mary, Blanche
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Post by myghaelangof on Apr 30, 2008 14:51:26 GMT -5
Well I've been busy the last few days following up several ideas, thanks to Trencrom. Having scoured the visitations I can find no plausible connection from the Arundells to my family, either Shakerley or Penberthy. I have also looked at a lot of internet resources for the Penberthy's and come up with very little - next to no references in the National Archives. On the 1641 Protestation Return for the whole of Cornwall were listed the following Penberthys: St.Ives - John; St Just - Isack; St.Hilary - John; St.Agnes - John; Uny Lelant - John, William, Willm, James, Richard. They liked the name John! I have also come across an Arundell PENBERTHY, baptised at Phillack in 1798 the son of Lewis & Grace (nee PRYOR). Grace's father was Arundell PRYOR. This just reminds me that my Arundell SHAKERLEY may have had his name brought down through various generations, and finding a direct link to the ARUNDELL family may be a wild goose chase. So many ARUNDELLs! The link to the GROSSE family is through serving in the Kings Civil War regiments and may be purely military, not genealogical. Somewhere out there is that elusive piece of evidence that can tell me more about Bennet Shakerley, father to Arundell. Thanks to everyone for their help.
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Post by gandolf on Apr 30, 2008 15:50:51 GMT -5
This Grace Pryor was born 1765, the daughter of Arundell Pryor (b. 1727, Sithney - d. 1803, Phillack) and Jane Millwood (b. 1737, Phillack - ?).
Arundell Prior was the son of Richard Pryor (b. 1703, Sithney - d. 1737, Wendron) and Margaret Arundell (b. 1704, Helston - d. 1788, Sithney).
Margaret Arundell is a descendant of the Arundells of Tolverne & Truthall, Sithney.
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Post by trencrom on Apr 30, 2008 23:12:28 GMT -5
mike and gandolf, I have a couple of questions for each of you (different questions for each of you). As they are off-topic as regards Madron I will send these as a PM.
Trencrom
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Post by myghaelangof on May 1, 2008 5:26:17 GMT -5
Thank you Gandolf for that marriage info. This is the first direct association I know of, between Penberthy and Arundell, albeit 100 years after Arundell Shakerley was born. Interestingly though, these are the Arundells of Tolverne, whom you say married into the Godolphins? Margaret Shakerley, nee Penberthy, was buried at Breage in 1631, and it hasn't escaped my attention that Godolphin House is in Breage parish? Some research into Godolphin I think... Thanks all
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 1, 2008 8:22:44 GMT -5
If it might be of help here are the early Godolphin marriages from Breage. (Looks like you might have to look at the BASSETT family also.):- Fraunces GODOLPHIN, esq., m. Margaret d/o John Kellygrew, esq. 29th June 1562 John ARUNDELL, ESQ., m. Anne d/o Thomas GODOLPHIN, esq. 1564 George KECWYCH, esq., m. Blanch d/o Francis GODOLPHIN, knight 30th December 1584 James BASSET, esq., m. Jane d/o Francis GODOLPHIN, knight 28th October 1593 Thomas SPERNON, gent., m. Thamsen d/o William GODOLPHIN, esq. 5th July 1598 Carolus BARKLEY, Miles, m. Penelope d/o Willi GODOLPHIN 6th September 1627 Willimus PAYNTER, Paynter de Antron of Sithney, m. Margaretta d/o Johis GODOLPHIN15th October 1638 ** This takes us to the end of 1754 ** My records for Sithney begin 1691 so probably a bit late for this part of the excercise. And note also the PAYNTER family becoming involved.
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Post by trencrom on May 1, 2008 22:22:28 GMT -5
Do we have any evidence that Penberthys were considered gentry in the seventeenth century?
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Post by trencrom on May 1, 2008 22:36:48 GMT -5
I think gandolf's last post reveals something important. Arundell Penberthy gets his name from Arundell Pryor, who gets it in turn from his mother's family.
Clearly the name "Arundell" is being carried and perpetuated down the female line here, and evidently this is being done for reasons of prestige.
I have seen a similar situation with a series of Dorset families in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, even more so in that instance, as the female line surnames were repeated as given names in I think it was three or four successive generations. That was invaluable in ascertaining the pedigrees of the families concerned of course! ;D
But what it also alerts us to is that the point of connection to the Arundells can be earlier than we might think for other familes. i.e. it was not Arundell Penberthy's mother who was an Arundell, but rather his grandmother. Such a scenario, or something similar, could also be true for the case of Arundell Shakerley. An Arundell descent may exist for him, but it could be further back than we realise.
Trencrom
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Post by gandolf on May 2, 2008 19:01:17 GMT -5
The Godolphins and Arundells are also connected.
John Arundell (1549-1595), Lord of Tolverne married 1564 to Ann Godolphin (c.1544-1595), daughter of Thomas Godolphin and Katherine Bonythan
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