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Post by trencrom on Sept 25, 2007 6:08:06 GMT -5
On researching to see if I could ascertain the ancestry of Mary Roberts, wife of Thomas Richards of Zennor (married 1705) I found firstly in Kathie's abstracts the will of a John Roberts, dated 13/9/1711, that refers to his daughter Mary the wife of Thomas Richards, and to his four other daughters (not named), and to his sons William and Edward, the youngest of whom was under 21 years of age. John's unnamed wife and his son John junior were appointed the executors.
But who was this John's wife?
The will of James Quick the elder of Zennor, dated 1703, leaves bequests amongst others to his daughter “Grace the wife of John Roberts”. Is this John Roberts the same man as Mary’s father? It certainly seems chronologically possible, as this James had both children and a grandson who was appointed his executor, and there is nothing in the will to indicate that the executor was not of full age, while John Roberts eight years later had children who were either teenagers or young adults. In other words, it seems that Mary's father is the right approximate age to be this James’ son-in-law.
There is also some onomastic indications consistent with a link between the families. Firstly there was a “Grace daughter of a John Roberts” christened in January 1691/2, which is not inconsistent with the father being this same John. There is furthermore a “Snoby the daughter of John Roberts” buried in 1685.* Since James Quick also had a daughter named Zenobia, whom he mentions in his will, these two references strengthen the case for the father of each of these girls also being the father of Mary.
* This could be a child of the other John Roberts (who married James Quick's sister Emblem) but this is less likely as he was of Towednack and had a daughter Zenobia who was living in 1709.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 25, 2007 14:43:28 GMT -5
Always with the hard questions - and at this hour of the night. The 'Snoby' buried in 1685 (did not know about her) would have to, I believe, be the daughter of John and Grace. To my knowledge - the Zenobia d/o John and Emblyn Roberts was baptised at Gwithian in 1660 and married James Woolcock sometime before 1689. You obviously have more BT information here so I would appreciate it very much if you could supply it. I believe you are on the right track here and the bulk of your note reflects what I already show in my database. Apart from 'Snoby' the children I have for John and Grace Roberts are:- Mary m. Thomas Richards John (c. 1687 d. Zennor 1769) m. Margaret Renoden Grace d. 1737 Zennor Honor d. 1742 Zennor Jane (c. 1693-1777) Zennor William c. 1697-1772 Zennor Dahlah bu. 1716 Zennor Edward (born after 1699) Please forward those further BT/PR entries for me as this is a group of families I have tried to work on for years. Your further information will be invaluable and I may then be able to piece a few more parts of the general puzzle together. I will have to look further at this in coming days.
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Post by trencrom on Sept 25, 2007 22:48:05 GMT -5
This is what I presently have for this family.
John Roberts of Zennor married Grace Quick and had the following children:
John, buried 10/4/1693 at Zennor,
John, liv. 1711 (named in his father’s will),
Mary, married Thomas Richards 5/2/1705 at Zennor, at least 8 children,
Grace, chr. Jan 1691/2,
“Snoby” (Zenobia), bd 31/5/1685 at Zennor,
(Daughter), liv. 1711,
(Daughter), liv. 1711,
(Daughter), liv. 1711,
William, chr. 10/4/1693, liv. 1711,
Edward, born aft. 1690, liv. 1711.
John Roberts died between 13-24/9/1711 (bd 24/9), survived by his wife.
How did you identify the other girls as Honor, Jane and Dahlah?
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Sept 26, 2007 17:58:48 GMT -5
It would appear that we have a problem. I presume the 1693 event is entered as 'John s/o John' If this is the case then we definitely have a problem. Is there any evidence of there having been two men named John Roberts active around Zennor at the same time? We know that son John was still living in 1711 as he is named in his father's Will as co-executor. My belief is that it was this John who married Margaret RENODEN at Zennor in 1739 - a marriage which appears to have produced no children. I believe Margaret to have been daughter of John Renoden and Joan (nee EDDY) and that she must have been born some time after 1690. The Zennor PR records:- Margaret wife of John Roberts buried 7th July 1766 John Roberts, age 81, buried 2nd May 1769 At age 81, this John Roberts had to have been born about 1687. This is about six years prior to the 1693 burial mentioned in the quote above. Can you confirm the 1693 event as 1. John and 2. a Burial ?? This question is prompted by your own last queston from the previous post. Honor - An Honor Roberts was buried at Zennor 6th June 1742 with no reference to her having been married. This, combined with the inferences of the Will of John Roberts in 1711 regarding 'unnamed' daughters, suggested the probability that she may belong here. Jane - There was a Jane Roberts buried at Zennor 20th July 1777, age 83. Her birth would be about 1693 which fits with the family of John and Grace and there is also no indication of her have been married. Dahlah - Same as above - no inference of marriage so 'probably' belonged to this family. I guess that is rather flimsy evidence but the fact that Roberts was not a 'common' name around Zennor at the time in question suggests the possibility that I 'may' be correct. The one problem is with the 1693 burial you have provided for John Roberts - which is why I have hi-lited the entry for Jane. Having looked through many a PR from that area of Cornwall - I need to ask if it is possible, in this case, that the name might be Jane rather than John and if the event may have been a baptism that was recorded amongst some burials. I have certainly seen this happen before with PRs for more than one Parish. If the entry is 'definitely' the burial of John Roberts s/o John in 1693 then we do obviously have a problem to sort out. Who said this game was easy.
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Post by trencrom on Sept 27, 2007 23:36:45 GMT -5
It is definitely a burial for a John son of John Roberts. There was no christening entry in the BTs for a Jane Roberts at Zennor in the year in question.
Re the three Roberts burials you mentioned -- I think more evidence is required here to prove that any or all of these are in fact the unnamed daughters of the will of the said John. While it is certainly possible that there were one or more spinster daughters, "Roberts" was not too uncommon a name in West Penwith and some or all of these women may have been born outside Zennor. Furthermore while the Jane you mention was born in the right time frame to have been a potential daughter of John, without ages at death we don't know that about the other two.
I also do not think that a lack of any reference to a woman's marital status in a burial register entry suggests that the said woman was a spinster. I have seen numerous instances over the years where married women were recorded in burial registers without anything being said therein about them being either widows or wives, and yet they are known from other evidences to have been married.
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Post by dianepen on Feb 26, 2016 2:36:17 GMT -5
Who did the John Robarts born 1660 in Zennor son of William and Honour Robarts marry? I want to eliminate him if not the one I am looking for, who married in Paul 1690 to Cattran Roche/Rock. Had 1 child Katerin who died in 1691, then Mary 1692, then alas Cattran died in 1694. We think John Robarts of Paul then married Joan Periam born 1664 who was 33 yrs old in a double ceremony with her sister at Gwennap in 1697. Refer Will 1736. Mary daughter, John born 1699, Benjamin 1701, William 1703 and Catherine 1706. Benjamin was Joan's father name. A Richard had a John in Paul 1671 but he would have been 7 yrs younger than Joan. John who was born 1699 a Blacksmith of Paul married Leah Harry in 1721. Will 1775 open to public. Cheers! D
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 26, 2016 6:18:41 GMT -5
Before answering this question I need to make a point - as the Parish Register for this period is fragmented or otherwise damaged and unreadable and as no Bishops Transcripts survive for the same period it is not known that any John Roberts was born or baptised at Zennor in 1660. We do know from the Wills of William and Honour Roberts that they had a son named John and as their marriage occurred sometime around October 1649 John was probably born after that date. In other words - the year of birth quoted as 1660 is purely a guess on the part of someone probably to fill a gap in their records. John Roberts married Grace Quick sometime around 1682. James Quick in his Will of 1704 named daughter Grace as wife of John Roberts and a James Quick, probably the brother of Grace, was a witness to John Roberts own Will dated 13th September 1711 and proved at Zennor 15th May 1712. John Roberts was buried at Zennor 24th September 1711 and his wife Grace was buried at Zennor 28th August 1737. The abstract I have seen of John Roberts' Will indicates that his wife was not actually named in the Will but she was mentioned and was nominated as his executor. CT
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Post by dianepen on Feb 27, 2016 2:33:06 GMT -5
Thank you so,much for that information. I think that I can now eliminate John Roberts of Zennor and John Roberts of Towednack, so I will have to keep looking for father John Roberts of John Roberts born in Paul in 1699. D of Perth W.Australia
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Post by samson on May 9, 2017 20:03:57 GMT -5
Hi, I am still searching for John Roberts born 1699 Paul Parish who has a father John. This John left a Will 1735/6. He had married in 1690 Cattran Roch had a daughter Mary in 1692, a Kathrine had died in 1691, then Cattran died 1694. He remarried Joan Periam in 1697 from Gwennap and I have the rest of the family. Mary his daughter married John Tregolahan. I think a connection to Jane Roberts who had married a John Tregolahan or Treglawn in 1665 around Constantine. One month after John married in 1690 a Thomas Roberts also married a Willmot in Paul Parish - maybe a brother and they had been away. A Richard Roberts had a son John 1670 Paul, and a William in 1654. One seems too young and the other too old. There are no Richard names that come after, but there is a William. Joan Periam was born 1663 so would have been 7 years older, is that usual? Maybe if she took Mary, but I think Mary went to Jane Roberts in Constantine. I can find no connection to Gwithian and Towednack, Llanhydrock, St Just at this stage, Zennor or Quick and Cotton families. There was a Joan and John in Paul in 1652 as Joan Bodiner left Joan sixpence in her Will. There are so many John Roberts's and a dilemma. I may never prove it but need some help I think. Cheers. DIane
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Post by samson on May 9, 2017 23:09:25 GMT -5
Re above - wrong dates are RIchard Roberts had a son 1671 not 1670 and Joan Periam born 1664 not 1663 - also Jane Roberts married on 10 January 1670 at Paul Parish John Treglohan. BIrths for Jane in Paul are 2 1639 William and Steven father, 2 1647 Thomas and John and 1 1648 also John. COuld she be my John's sister. The mystery deepens. D
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Post by trencrom on May 12, 2017 3:19:23 GMT -5
Hi Samson,
As this thread is a thread on Roberts in Zennor parish, and your inquiry relates to Roberts in Paul parish, I suggest that you re-post you enquiry onto the "Paul" board of this website, thereby also bringing it to the attention of people who are researching names in that particular parish.
Trencrom
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