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Post by canada1 on Mar 10, 2014 7:33:35 GMT -5
Looking for help in researching the following people: Ivor Roberts, Steven Roberts, Freda Roberts b. 1912 and Louise Roberts b. 1914 all children of Sarah Beatrice Stone and (unknown first name) Roberts of St. Buryan. These are the half siblings of my grandmother Alberta Stone. Little is known about them so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by sue on Mar 10, 2014 9:46:48 GMT -5
Hi.
I would hazard a guess that your Alberta Stone was born in the Jun Q of 1908 in the Penzance RD in Cornwall, & can be found in the 1911 census age 3 born St Buryan (I do not know who else was present in the household as I do not have full access to the 1911 census); and that she emigrated to Canada. And that her mother was Sarah Beatrice Stone baptized 15 April 1877 St Buryan to John Warren Stone & his wife Sarah Jane.
Is that correct and definite evidence information that you already have? And may we ask the source of your information e.g. is it oral history?
Best to have solid foundation building blocks to build on!
Sue
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Post by canada1 on Mar 10, 2014 9:58:47 GMT -5
Yes, that is all correct. I have access to that census as well. Alberta's mother married later in life and she had the above half siblings whom I have no information on. I did just find the husband's first name and year of birth however, his name was Stephen Roberts and he was born in 1874.
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Post by sue on Mar 10, 2014 10:10:50 GMT -5
So, we are looking for children of Sarah Beatrice Stone & Stephen Roberts, who married some time in the early 20th century, possibly in Cornwall/England/Canada I'm guessing, but I don't know which, or what country they ended up in. Could you expand here? In order to help us, could you say where you got Stephen Roberts' name & birth year from? There is a Stephen Roberts baptized St Buryan 6 March 1880 to Arthur & Louise (source: OPC Cornwall) and that family appears in 1881 census showing Stephen age 3 i.e. born 1878........ Also, what country do you have reason to believe Ivor, Stephen, Freda & Louise were born in? Sue
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Post by canada1 on Mar 10, 2014 10:28:36 GMT -5
Sarah Beatrice and Stephen Roberts were both from St. Buryan, Cornwall England and all children would have been born there. I got Stephen's year of birth from a fellow member of Ancestry.ca
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Post by sue on Mar 10, 2014 10:46:25 GMT -5
Hi I was in the process of updating my post; you might want to read the finished article, above. Probably not a good idea to rely on 3rd hand information unsourced; Chinese whispers, wishful thinking etc. have a habit of wheedling their way in! You really need to use actual records. Freebmd; OPC Cornwall for baptisms/marriages & deaths;, the census et al information on Ancestry/Findmypast/Freecen other actual record information deal in facts (subject to keying errors!). But other people's family trees........ May I suggest you search Freebmd Births for children born (in Cornwall if you wish) by the surname Roberts, 1911 onwards with mother's name Stone, up to latest 1925 when Sarah would have been 48 years old, and see what success you have. Also, we've yet to establish what country Sarah & Stephen married in..... and when.. and if.... For without a marriage record, it seems to me that these children Ivor Stephen Freda Louise might have been born as Stone, like Alberta & others. Now, Freebmd does have some distinct possibilities in Penzance Registration District for that... (Have a look for yourself). Which means you're talking about a 1937 Stone~Roberts marriage per Freebmd, so we're not looking for Ivor Roberts, Louise Roberts etc. at all......... Sue P.S. To my simple mind, it would be unusual for parents both born in Cornwall and still living in Cornwall to name a child Ivor; such a Welsh name. There are a few, if you look at www.cornwall-opc-database.org and do a search under "Person Search"; but very few. Myself I have found through hard experience that it is best not to assume anything. But often all bets are off as to what names were given to children if the mother was not married - George I G Stone, for example..... whose marriage can be found in Freebmd, plus offspring.... but as that's getting into the realms of likely living people, for reasons of sensitivity I would not post those details here. I had a boss once whose favourite phrase was "slowly slowly catchee monkey". He'd definitely apply it to family history research - one solid properly sourced building block at a time! Sue
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Post by canada1 on Mar 10, 2014 11:29:49 GMT -5
Thank you for the information, I will try your suggestions.
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Post by londoner on Mar 10, 2014 13:47:59 GMT -5
In the above mentioned 1911 census our friends at ancestry have transcribed two separate households as one. Stephen Roberts is living with his parents Arthur and Hannah and Sarah Beatrice is with her parents John Warren and Sarah Jane plus 6 grandchildren, who we must assume are Sarah's as although she is single her mother states that she had only three children and that only one is still living. the children are Florence age 13, John L age 11, Joseph Herbert age 9, Bertha age 5, Alberta age 3 and Thornley age 1. A different set of siblings and without a marriage for Sarah Beatrice it will not be easy to prove who their father was. Although the baptism of Florence Lilian in 1900 states that he was a labourer although no name is given ( opc database )
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Post by londoner on Mar 10, 2014 13:54:40 GMT -5
And if you look at the image at family Search it just says single woman so I guess the opc transcript must have come from another source.
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Post by canada1 on Mar 10, 2014 16:50:34 GMT -5
I see that they have lumped the two families together. If you look at the house numbers it say 36 and 37...so they were side by side it seems. Gives me a good indication of how Sarah Beatrice and Stephen met I guess. I have spoken to some family members in Cornwall and they have no idea what happened to Ivor and Louise specifically. Some say that Ivor boarded a ship for Australia and either jumped ship or never made it to his destination. This is what I am trying to find more about. It would make it easier if I had a birth date but there seems to be no record of he or of the other children. I know that Stephen and Sarah got married as the family has said they did so I am assuming their last names are Roberts and not Stone. My search continues....thanks for the info!
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Post by londoner on Mar 10, 2014 17:34:14 GMT -5
Stephens mother was Louisa not Hannah as stated above . Hannah was his sister. In sept 1911 Hannah was fined ten shillings for kicking young Alberta in the back. I wonder if she was one of the reasons Sarah and Stephen did not marry until much later. I also found that Alberta's brother thornley went to Australia in 1923 .
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Post by sue on Mar 11, 2014 14:12:28 GMT -5
Hi again Canada1. You are currently looking for the youngest children of Sarah Beatrice's brood, apparent father Roberts, viz Ivor, Stephen, Freda 1912, Louise 1914. As per my last, they would have been born Stone, not Roberts, since Sarah did not marry Stephen Roberts until 1937 when she was 60, per Freebmd records. If you haven't already done so, simply search Freebmd for marriage of Sarah B Stone, 1911 onwards, & I think you'll only find 2 marriages in the whole of the country. Some of the 10 or so children, starting 1897 per records on OPC Cornwall, could have chosen in life to go by the assumed name of Roberts (or something else), but they would have been born Stone, + maiden name of mother also recorded as Stone (where 1911 onwards records have this as a field); Stone should then continue to be the name they were legally known by in official records. So I am bemused as to why you are saying there is no record of their births : My thought process in my last, yesterday, once I'd found in records that Sarah's marriage was long after child-bearing age was finished, concluded in suggesting you look at 1911 -1925 Stone births in Freebmd in the Penzance RD, as I was able to see strong candidates, where mother's maiden name is also Stone, for at least 3 of the 4 children you are after. If you try that, you should have found potential candidates Louisa R Stone born Dec Q 1914 Penzance RD, George IG Stone June Q 1917, Stephen A Stone Mar Q 1921 ; and Mary E Stone June Q 1912 (actual record looks like could perhaps be an F) could be Freda. I cannot stress too strongly that oral history is jolly interesting, but oftentimes materially inaccurate, or just plain wrong. There can be many reasons for this; including, for example, stressed families breaking up. Records, records, records! And no assumptions! As Londoner has found - in records - Thornley travelling in 1923 to Australia, that could be a source of possible misinformation you have about Ivor going there, as I believe a marriage for a person I believe could well be him is visible in Freebmd in 1940 (I refer you back to the above, in that you must 1stly identify his correct legal birth name), followed by 2 children born in the area 1940s by the name Stone with mother's maiden name being the name of the 1940 bride. I will not publish those birth details here because of reasons of privacy; too recent. But I can also see a marriage in the 1960s, still in the area, for one of those offspring. Don't forget that some living descendants may not want their recent family history plastered on the internet. I wouldn't. If you look at each of these pieces of information slowly and carefully, you may be able to piece together some accurate information to add to your knowledge of the family. Sue
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Post by canada1 on Mar 11, 2014 17:17:08 GMT -5
Wow, some interesting stuff...thanks. Londoner where did you find that Hannah had kicked my gran in the back?
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Post by canada1 on Mar 11, 2014 18:20:32 GMT -5
All of the previous children went by Stone...even my grandmother who's father was named on her birth cert. I guess considering the other children were born out of wedlock would be Stones as well. I am just beginning my research on these children so I will follow the leads you have given me and I'm sure I will find something. Thank you again for your time.
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Post by canada1 on Mar 11, 2014 18:23:02 GMT -5
Thornly did go to Australia as we were in contact with him years ago....Ivor seems to have disappeared so the family says.
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