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Post by zibetha on May 9, 2013 23:45:51 GMT -5
When I first joined the board, I was coaxed into posting the nominal information I had about my great-greatgrandfather, John Mitchell, husband of Bessie Sampson which unexpectedly produced a lot of information about Bessie's family instead. I keep looking for information on her siblings who didn't take the big boat ride to the US and just discovered some information about her older brother, Francis. The IGI has a christening record for him in 1855. I found a death record indexed for "Frances" Sampson in 1878 in Orange, New South Wales, parents Josiah and Amelia Sampson (my ancestors) along with information that a 21-year old Francis voyaged to Australia on the Caroline in 1878. Doesn't seem that the trip went well if he died a couple of months later. Possible marriage for Francis in Redruth 1872 to either Ellen Bellman or Rosina Perry. I haven't been able to find records for the "Caroline" and am curious as to whether Francis/Frances may have travelled with a spouse or sibling. Thanks in advance, Z
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Post by tenpoundpom on May 10, 2013 4:02:28 GMT -5
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Post by zibetha on May 10, 2013 22:45:38 GMT -5
Thank you!
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Post by zibetha on May 19, 2013 18:18:51 GMT -5
QUOTE: I'm trying to establish Elizabeth Huthnances parents. My best guess is John Huthnance and Elizabeth Tremayne. They were married in Phillack 22 November 1771. On the parish record John is from Gwinear and Elizabeth from Phillack.
Hello, TPP-- From your post re: Gilbarts, I now believe we are related. Francis and I were/are both descendants of Mary Tremayne and William Sampson: Mary having been, I believe, sister to your Elizabeth Tremayne, wife of John Huthnance.
Small world!
Z
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Post by tenpoundpom on May 20, 2013 4:02:57 GMT -5
Lol, when I tracked down Francis Sampson on the 'Caroline', I had no idea that he was related. Have you seen the Tremayne family history? constantinecornwall.com/heritage/files/C.-First-Generation2.pdfElizabeth and Mary are mentioned as individuals no 79 and 80 in the 16th generation of the family. The history contains a lot of will extracts and other material and is quite fascinating. I only came across it a day or two ago. Simon
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Post by zibetha on May 29, 2013 1:19:21 GMT -5
I am looking for help with an “Annie Juliani” please. Tripped over her death record while revisiting the Joseph & Amelia Sampson tribe.
Annie was Annie Sampson born Feb 1851, and the daughter of John (per 2nd marriage record) or Joe (per her death record.) I am trying to determine if she was one of “my” Sampsons,
Annie married John Uren of Camborne who was the son of Thomas Uren and Caroline Thomas. Annie and John moved to Houghton, Michigan and then Iron Mountain where they show up on the 1894 State Census. John died in Iron Mountain, Michigan in 1903, and his widow, Annie, then married Richard James Julian b: 1868 (a much younger man.)
Here’s where this gets to be fun: Richard James Julian was previously married to Alice Nichols, daughter of Thomas Nichols and Amelia Sampson (whose parents were Joseph Sampson and Amelia Williams.) I think Amelia Jr came over to the US on the Adriatic and was the Amelia age 26 on the manifest (really 16--- the rest of the ages descend chronologically and I know she wound up in Michigan.) Richard James Julian’s parents were Charles Julian and Mary Jane Pooley who happens to have been the daughter of Eleanor Semmons, sister to my 3x great grandfather on my mother‘s father‘s side, Henry Semmons of Crowan.
My mother’s parents were friends and neighbors of Amelia Sampson Nichols’ daughter (Alice's sister) Laura’s daughter , Elaine, whose wedding anniversary happens to be on my birthday. After I figured most of this out, I sent my mother a message re: the relationship of Laura’s daughter to her mother, and she responded to me confirming that they were related via their mothers being cousins on their mother’s side and providing all the names. Bingo.
My open question remains, who were the parents of Annie Sampson Uren Julian?
Z
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 29, 2013 4:43:53 GMT -5
Hi Zib - my first reaction on seeing the 'birth information' for Annie was that the source is probably the 1900 Census and that immediately suggests that we should be treating the date as suspicious! And my first look at the UK Census would seem to support that! I cannot find an Ann or Annie Sampson in 1851 or 1861 who might be the girl you are after but I did find a possibility in 1871. In 1871 at 7 Basset Road Camborne we find the family of Charles Budge, grocer and draper. In this household is a general servant and cook named Ann Sampson whose age is recorded as 22 and birthplace as Phillack. I think this will probably be the Annie you are looking for but further searches indicate that Ann/Annie was not her birth name. I cannot find John Uren and his wife in 1881 so unless I am faced with the all-too-common problem of incompetent transcriptions on Ancestry I think it probable that they had already left England by that time. And that then supports the suspicion I now have of who Annie might be. From 1848 to 1851 there were just two Ann Sampsons recorded in FreeBMD. Both were born 1848 in the Penzance R.D. and one of them died soon after but the only baptism I can find is at Penzance in March 1850 when Ann daughter of Robert and Ann Sampson was baptised. I checked the Penzance PR for this baptism and there were four children baptised to Robert and Ann Sampson on the same day. That means that Ann was one of the two 1848 births which means that, unless a birth registration is missing, my comment above about Ann/Annie not being the birth name is probably correct. Ann Sampson appears at Camborne in 1871 but cannot be found in 1861 or 1851. FreeBMD indicates just two Ann Sampson births in the required time period with one of those deceased and the other daughter of Robert Sampson. So further checks of 1851 and 1861 Census records looking for a match for Ann Sampson of 1871 leave me with one probable conclusion! The wife of John Uren, although recorded as Annie Sampson in the Marriage Index, is most likely Mary Ann daughter of Joseph/Josiah Sampson and his wife Amelia. Mary Ann first appears in the 1851 Census but so far I have not found a baptism for her. In the 1861 Census she appears to be the only Sampson girl whose details closely match 'Ann' at Camborne in 1871. And I suspect it is much more than coincidental that Josiah Sampson died at Franklin, Houghton, MI in 1879. And then add Amelia who died at Iron Mountain in 1899 after having married Richard Bennett at Menominee in 1888. If the wife of John Uren and then Richard James Julian was not Mary Ann Sampson then there are one heckuva lot of quincequonces involved here! CT
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Post by zibetha on May 31, 2013 1:52:32 GMT -5
Thanks, CT.
The birth info for Annie actually was from her death record: Feb 10, 1851. Mother unknown.
John Uren 1843-1903 was not on the 1861 Census with his widowed mother and siblings. I found a John aged about 30 in Houghton-Hancock in 1870 who was married, working as a miner, and a boarder. I have the marriage to Annie Jul 1871. By 1881, he and Annie plus children Amelia (yes, bells going off) born 2-3 years before John and Annie married and possibly to a different mother, Lydia and Albert. Later children: Emeline, Susie and Henry. John's death certificate states he was the father of 7 children, 6 living at time of his death which would mean I am missing one.
As to Mary Ann 1848, I had her pegged as the Mary A servant and cook b: Phillack residing c/o Gilbert and Elizabeth Pearce at Hayle in 1881 on Piece 2339, Folio 91 p. 18 and possibly the Mary A of Ventonleague, Phillack who died May 2, 1889 at age 42 (OPC.)
Amelia Williams Sampson Bennett's death record has her as the mother of 16 children. I have seen a newspaper clipping of an interview with one of her younger children on the occasion of his 91st birthday stating he was one of 21. Who knows?
Zib
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 31, 2013 2:31:06 GMT -5
The Mary Ann Sampson in the household of Gilbert Pearce was recorded as being age 28 in the 1881 Census giving a likely birth around 1852 or perhaps 1853. That would rely on the Census information being correct of course! I don't know about the Mary Ann buried at Phillack in 1889 but have you considered the possibility that she may have been a married woman? I cannot readily find her in 1881 but it is possible that she married sometime between 1881 and her death in 1889 - possibly even a second marriage. CT
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Post by zibetha on Jul 3, 2016 21:08:06 GMT -5
Back to my earlier post here on the Tremayne family and connection, I have quandary going back a couple of generations on the Tremayne side. Mary and Elizabeth Tremayne (Hi, Simon!) were great-granddaughters of Gideon Tremayne and his 2nd wife, Catherine Leggoe (nee Carnsew.)
I am struggling with Gideon and Catherine' daughter, Grace. The published Tremayne histories (see Simon's link for one) are stunning to read. Here is my dilemma: Daughter Grace Tremayne b: 1704 is listed as having married Francis Pascoe in 1724. The trail ends there for that couple as far as I have found.
However, there is a marriage a few years later: Grace Tremayne to James Reed in 1727 (both marriages recorded in Constantine.) Grace and James named children Gideon and Catherine. Hmm I am trying to determine if Grace was married twice and listed as Tremayne due to the prominence of the family name or if a different Grace Tremayne married Francis Pascoe.
My current interest in this is that I had myself charted as a descendent of Gideon and Catherine Tremayne's son William and now have DNA matches to two descendents of (his sister?) Grace Tremayne and James Reed who live in Michigan, USA. Help from any Tremayne researchers would be greatly appreciated!
z
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 4, 2016 5:53:17 GMT -5
A dilemma indeed! - And one that is not helped by the state of the Constantine registers. Not only are they very difficult to read but there is a rather large gap between 1708 and 1746 where there appears to have been a complete register lost! As a consequence it appears the only records we have available for that period are the BTs which, as usual, are incomplete for every year. However, there may be a small light at the end of the tunnel! As there appears to be an 'end of the trail' with Francis Pascoe and Grace Tremain it suggests the possibility that either one of the parties died fairly soon after the marriage or that it was a marriage of older persons. I have not tried to pursue this further at the moment but I might suggest the following baptisms as something of interest:- Grace daughter of Gydeon Tremain by Ann wife bapt. ffeb 9th 1683 at ConstantineGrace daughter of Cutburt Tremain bp. 12th March 1684 at WendronI don't know how much that might help but it is certainly worth considering. CT
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Post by zibetha on Jul 4, 2016 19:31:32 GMT -5
Thanks, CT.
I've got the first Grace you reference as the daughter of Gideon T and Ann Farrell, Francis Pascoe I think was born 1699, so these other ladies named Grace are a bit on the old side, me thinks.
Z
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jul 4, 2016 20:52:11 GMT -5
Well if there were two Grace Tremains then have you checked on the possibility there may also have been an older Francis Pascoe? It would pay to check that before dismissing the possibility. It is also possible there was yet another Grace Tremain for whom no baptism record survives and I would perhaps give some thought to the possibility that one of these Grace Tremains may have been previously married. CT
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Post by tenpoundpom on Jul 10, 2016 7:26:14 GMT -5
Back to my earlier post here on the Tremayne family and connection, I have quandary going back a couple of generations on the Tremayne side. Mary and Elizabeth Tremayne (Hi, Simon!) were great-granddaughters of Gideon Tremayne and his 2nd wife, Catherine Leggoe (nee Carnsew.) I am struggling with Gideon and Catherine' daughter, Grace. The published Tremayne histories (see Simon's link for one) are stunning to read. Here is my dilemma: Daughter Grace Tremayne b: 1704 is listed as having married Francis Pascoe in 1724. The trail ends there for that couple as far as I have found. However, there is a marriage a few years later: Grace Tremayne to James Reed in 1727 (both marriages recorded in Constantine.) Grace and James named children Gideon and Catherine. Hmm I am trying to determine if Grace was married twice and listed as Tremayne due to the prominence of the family name or if a different Grace Tremayne married Francis Pascoe. My current interest in this is that I had myself charted as a descendent of Gideon and Catherine Tremayne's son William and now have DNA matches to two descendents of (his sister?) Grace Tremayne and James Reed who live in Michigan, USA. Help from any Tremayne researchers would be greatly appreciated! z Hello Zib, Can't help you with you with your specific question, but I have also had DNA test through 23 & me. Quite a few 4-5 cousin matches, including a Huthnance, and I'm in the process of trying to work out the connection with her. I haven't loaded up the DNA to Gedmatch yet, but aim to do so soon. Be interesting if you come up as related (which I know we probably are through the Tremayne family.) Simon
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Post by zibetha on Jul 10, 2016 12:39:48 GMT -5
Simon,
I hope you do try Gedmatch; I'll be looking for you! On Ancestry, where I tested, I've been able to work out a couple of 10th to 12th cousin matches that showed up as 5th to 8th in probability. You never know.
So far, I have found us to be related two ways: 7th cousins via the Tremayne link (my maternal grandmother's side of the family) and 9th via the Harry/Harris family (my maternal grandfather's side.)
Zib
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