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Post by sue on Jun 1, 2012 17:13:56 GMT -5
I have come back, for the umpteenth time, to trying to identify the Curnow husband of Elizabeth, a widow born c1846, in 1881 living with her married sister Mary Barry in Bedminster Somerset, by 1901/1911 in Bristol. Both Elizabeth & Mary, the sisters, born Zennor. Mary Ellis married James Barry Mar Q 1875 Penzance RD; by 1911 nieces Bessie Nankervis 26 born Towednack & Catherine Nankervis 24 born Halsetown have joined the Bristol establishment, & I believe them to be daughters of Martha nee Ellis who 1st married Wm Richards then Wm Henry Nankervis. So methinks widow Elizabeth Curnow 1881 in Somerset must be Elizabeth Ellis who married William Curnow Jun Q 1875 Penzance RD. There appears to be just the one child to the Wm Curnow~Elizabeth Ellis marriage: Elizabeth Mary Curnow born Towednack c1877, per 1881 – 1911 censuses. So she is the baptism 17 March 1876 St Ives circuit, to William & Elizabeth Curnow of Rosewall Hill, which is where aunt Martha Ellis was at the time of her 1867 marriage. The father of the Ellis girls was I believe Robert Ellis 1811 son of Thomas Ellis~Jane Curnow, buried Towednack 1873 of Rosewall Hill; the mother Mary Nankervis. Hmm, I keep seeing the name Nankervis! So I am thinking the Wm Curnow I am seeking to identify, the husband of Elizabeth Ellis per 1875 marriage, was perhaps the c1845 son of John Curnow 1804 & his 2nd wife Peggy Nankervis. Wm Curnow c1845 being at home at Amalveor with widowed mother Peggy in 1871 whilst Elizabeth Ellis looks to have been a farm servant “Eliza” 1871. Then Wm Curnow died, somewhere, before 1881, by which time widowed Elizabeth plus 4 year old daughter Elizabeth Mary are esconced in Somerset with Mary Ellis & her husband James Barry. Do you think this Wm Curnow is a working hypothesis, for now? Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 4, 2012 7:34:47 GMT -5
Sue - sorry I have not replied to this earlier but I have been working on the problem! Unfortunately William Curnow's disappearance is creating difficulties as he does not appear to have died in England. You may well be on the right track with his identity but there are a number of other William Curnows who might also potentially be the husband of Elizabeth Ellis. It may be a case of a long process of elimination because without the marriage record we have no idea of the age or marital status of William when he married Elizabeth Ellis. Proximity at Towednack is certainly suggestive but far from conclusive. What I have been doing is trying to piece together the Ellis family and, particularly, the families of the three daughters you have mentioned - i.e. Elizabeth, Mary and Martha - along with their respective spouses. AND! it would seem that there is a prostitute involved! ;D Martha was widowed in 1879 and her husband, William Richards, buried at Towednack 5th April of that year. After some work I discovered the identity of her second husband William Henry Nankervis who was buried at Towednack two weeks after Martha. Martha Nankervis of Rosewall Hill age 43 buried 13th February 1891 William Henry Nankervis of Rosewall Hill age 51 buried 27th February 1891 William was the son of Charles NEKERVIS and Jane RICHARDS who were married at Zennor 1st November 1828. I have not yet updated all the information so don't have William's baptism date to hand right now but it is certainly the correct family. I also discovered that William was previously married but what I am not certain about is whether he was, as recorded in 1881, actually widowed when he married Martha Richards nee Ellis. William Henry Nankervis married Emily Jane Edwards, age 18, 23rd July 1866 at Towednack. It appears there was only one child from this marriage, son Nicholas born 1866/7. In 1871 William Nankervis was at Green Bank, Towednack with his widowed mother Jane, sister Elizabeth and son Nicholas. He was recorded as being married but his wife was not present. But .......................... 1871 Census 25 Union Place, East Stonehouse, Devon Martha RICHARDSON, head, unm, 32, lodging house keeper, Oakhampton, Devon Catherine do., sister, unm, 16, general servt., Plymouth, Devon Agnes SOWDEN, lodger, unm, 20, Polpara, Cornwall Charlotte ALGATE, lodger, unm, 21, Plymouth, Devon Lousia O'CONNOR, lodger, mar, 23, Liscard, Cornwall Emily J. NANKERVIS, lodger, mar, 22, Gulval, CornwallUnder the column labelled 'Rank, Profession, or OCCUPATION' we find that the four 'lodgers' are bracketed together and beside their bracketed names is the word PROSTITUTES! ;D CT
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Post by sue on Jun 4, 2012 8:57:27 GMT -5
Hmmm!!!! I've always thought that occupation was probably much under-recorded in censuses..... There is a possible death for married Emily Jane Nankervis: Emily Jane Nancurves Sep Q 1879 age 31 in Hayfield RD up in the Peak District of Derbyshire. Right age, & an uncommon surname. So William N could have been a genuine widower by time of marriage to Martha Richards widow... I had thought it possible that I may have missed something re the William Curnow who married Elizabeth Ellis – was worth asking, anyway! I can eliminate some of the William Curnows, but that's not enough, is it... Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 4, 2012 12:02:41 GMT -5
Okay - that 'could' be her which would certainly justify the 1881 Census entry for William Nankervis. It would also indicate that there may have been some contact with 'home'. Or at least someone knew enough about her for news to get back to Cornwall when she died. If we had today's methods of checking then it might be interesting to have a check through the bank records of William Nankervis between about 1867 and 1879 - particularly in regards to deposits! William Curnow - nothing that I have found to indicate you might have missed anything so it does look like either Marriage Certificate or process of elimination at the moment. Unless he left the country for a time it might be useful to start with the 1871 Census to see who was about and then check 1881 to see who was still there. CT
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Post by sue on Jun 5, 2012 11:27:21 GMT -5
Okay ;D, of the William Curnows aged 16 or over 1871, I have the following not definitely accounted for by 1881:
1. William Curnow 1871 age 25 railway guard unmarried boarder in Penzance, born Ruan. Can't see he would have married Elizabeth Ellis & lived at Rosewall Hill for a while.
2. William Curnow 1871 age 26 hairdresser son of Charles Curnow~Mary Ann Richards of St Ives. Again, can't see it. (Only found a future for one of his siblings so far, John, who went to London then settled in Devon as an artist/drawing master!) Someone on Rootsweb has a couple of his siblings in Ballarat, so maybe others went too.
3. William Curnow 1871 age 22 Gwennap, miner, born Gwennap. Doesn't seem a strong candidate.
4. William Henry Curnow 1871 age 26 ag lab Towednack, being William Henry Taylor Curnow illeg son of Elizabeth 1816 Zennor. He is a likely candidate to have married Sophia Webber nee Curlyon Jun Q 1875, been at Brunnion Lelant 1881 and then gone on to Illogan... This marriage had a son named Sampson, born the same year, 1879, that William Henry's brother Sampson was buried.
5. William Curnow 1871 age 22 miner Penderleath Towednack son of William Curnow~Jane Harris. He is the alternate candidate to have married Sophia Webber nee Curlyon Jun Q 1875, his brother Sampson having died in a St Teath accident 1878 I believe; certainly that Sampson Curnow death fits with Sampson's wife Peggy Rouncefield being a widow 1881. However the previous William is the one consistently known as Wm Henry.
6. William Curnow 1871 age 23 Bussow Towednack born Lelant farming son of John Curnow and Marianne Uren. He possibly married Mary Dunn and is at Amalveor 1881 age 29, stone cutter born Lelant, 1891 stonemason age 41 Halsetown, 1901 age 52 stone merchant, 1911 stonemason age 65. Their only son visible is censuses was named John. This William had several brothers, John for example marrying in New York 1882. Baby brother Albert ends up running the farm at Bussow by 1901 after mother died.
7. William Cornow 1871 age 22 Lelant born Lelant miner son of William Curnow and Agnes Tyack (he baptized 1849 Lelant of Canons Town). He is the other option to have married Mary Dunn – and seems slightly more likely to have become a stone cutter/mason that the farming boy above.
8. And lastly the chap I vaguely lean towards to be the husband of Elizabeth Ellis, both of them having Nankervis family links: William Curnow 1871 age 25 at Amalveor Towednack miner son of John Curnow 1804 and Peggy Nankervis. He also had a brother Sampson, so could be put in the frame for marrying Sophia and having a son Sampson.
So that is the total of my dilemna as to the possible husbands for Elizabeth Ellis, I believe!
Sue
(And a William H Curnow washes up in California 1880, born c 1849 England, Pennsylvania born wife Mamie A .)
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 5, 2012 17:32:36 GMT -5
Sue - It seems there is still a lot to do before we can identify which William married Elizabeth Ellis. Three things to take note of:- 1. Marianne 2. Nankervis 3. Stonemason You are probably looking at this and wondering what the heck I am on about. 1. You mention a William son of John and Marianne (nee Uren) but ........... What about John Curnow and Mary Ann CLARK who married at Ludgvan just four years prior to the marriage of John Curnow and Marianne Uren? The John Curnow in each case was a farmer. The father of each of these John Curnows was also John Curnow. Both marriages took place at Ludgvan. I think those two families need to be sorted before much more can be done with them. 2. Nankervis - don't get too carried away with Nankervis on this one! William Henry Nankervis was the second husband of Martha Ellis who was a sister-in-law to William Curnow so any link there is inclined to be tenuous. And William Henry was the son of Charles Nankervis (Nekervis) and Jane Richards who married at Zennor in 1829. I have just worked out that Charles must be the James Nekervis baptised at Madron in 1805 son of John. It took quite some time piecing the family together but the only answer is that Charles name was incorrectly recorded when he was baptised. And grandfather John Nekervis married Mary Harry at Morvah there is a link via Mary Harry directly back to Alice Trewhella (sister to my 7xgt-grandfather) who married Hannibal Harry at Morvah in 1733! John Nekervis/Nankervis appears to have been born probably at Madron about 1776 but I have not checked for parents as yet. Peggy Bennetts Nankervis appears to have been born at St Just in 1808 daughter of William Nankervis and Sarah Bennetts so any relationships are becoming quite distant I think. 3. Stonemason - don't get trapped into thinking every stonemason was a Monumental Mason! You will find that most men labelled 'stonemasons' were merely labourers employed in carving out the rock and that means there are more or less akin to farmers and miners - all labourers! BTW - I tend to agree that Gwennap and Ruan are out of the equation so they can be dropped down the list. William son of Charles I am not sure about. All of his surviving elder siblings ended up in Victoria but I don't yet know what happened to William, John, Philippa or Catherine who were the four youngest as far as I am aware. I need to finish off with the Nankervis family and then the two John Curnows need to be sorted out to see which married Marianne Uren and which married Mary Ann Clark. CT
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 5, 2012 17:57:43 GMT -5
Don't worry about the Mary Ann Clark/Marianne Uren confusion - you are quite right! You Know Who Strikes Again!!!!!
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Post by sue on Jun 6, 2012 4:29:58 GMT -5
Indeed, I have the son of John Curnow~Mary Noall i.e. John Curnow~Mary Ann Clark as childless, borrowing some nephew/nieces at some point, I recall. And the future I have for the only sibling of William Curnow St Jves hairdresser son of Charles the hairdresser/seedsman is John Curnow 1881 professor of drawing in Devon, identified by his mother being present, widow of seedsman. I know there's a lot to sort out on this “query”. Trouble is, I'm kindof reaching the trickiest ones.... It'll take as long as it takes...... Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 6, 2012 8:20:47 GMT -5
I will try and catch up later and let you know what I have about the other children of Charles and Mary Ann.
It is all old information but most of it can be checked against the Victorian Pioneers and other BMD Indexes.
CT
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Post by sue on Oct 11, 2013 8:31:16 GMT -5
In the vain hope that perhaps even by writing this, I may come up with some inspiration, an update. I have now narrowed down to 3 possibilities the William Curnows who could/would have been either the chap who married Elizabeth Ellis June Q 1875 Penzance RD had a child Mary Elizabeth baptized St Ives W-M Circuit 1876 fron Rosewall Hill then disappeared leaving Elizabeth 1881 onwards to declare herself a widow; or the chap who married the same Quarter to Sophia Jane Curlyon Webber, was enumerated at Brunnion Lelant 1881 then went to Illogan. To recap, possible William Curnows were 1 Wm Curnow 1871 age 25 railway guard born Ruan - we agreed he was most unlikely. Out.2 Wm Curnow 1871 age 26 St Ives hairdresser son of Charles: he married Mary Louisa Blamey Dec Q 1875 and became a music teacher in London, dying there in 1899 per censuses & FBMD. Out.3 Wm Curnow 1871 Gwennap age 22 is agreed to be most unlikely. Out.4 Wm Henry Curnow 1871 age 26 ag lab Towednack son of Elizabeth Curnow - remaining strong candidate to have married Sophia & been at Brunnion Lelant 1881 next door to Uncle Sampson Curnow & his wife Hannah Rapson. Was consistently known as Wm Henry; baptized a son Wm Henry 1878, had a son Sampson present 1881, possibly named for his brother Sampson who was still with mother 1881; possibly for uncle Sampson next door. Option for marrying Sophia.. Or, could perhaps have married Elizabeth Ellis.5 Wm Curnow 1871 age 22 miner Penderleath Towednack son of William Curnow~Jane Harris. Probably actually born 1845 same as "4 Wm Henry"; just as viably next door to Sampson Curnow at Brunnion Lelant 1881, as again this is an uncle; it was his brother Sampson who died 1878 St Teath, so naming a son Sampson in 1879 is appropriate. 2nd option for marrying Sophia. Or could have married Elizabeth Ellis.
6 Wm Curnow 1871 age 23 at Bussow: he is the chap 1911 still a stonecutter born Lelant, resident St Ives. Out.7 Wm Curnow 1871 age 22 Lelant born Lelant miner son of William Curnow and Agnes Tyack: married Frances Ann Dixon 1873 Whitehaven up in NW England, children included Agnes. Out.8 Wm Curnow 1871 age 25 at Amalveor Towednack miner son of John Curnow 1804 and Peggy Nankervis. Whilst he did have a brother Sampson so might have so named a son, the Sampson Curnow chap at Brunnion Lelant was not his uncle, so I see no reason this Wm Curnow would be up there with a wife Sophia. He remains an option for being at Rosewall Hill 1876 with wife Elizabeth, then disappearing... 8.5 Wm Curnow born c1849 in California 1880 married to Mamie: he immigrated c1869, was born 4 may 1849 so was baptized Mawgan (f*g, US censuses + OPC), again Out......................................................... Nope, I still have 3 candidates for 2 marriages: numbers 4,5 & 8; & just the one death, that of the Wm Henry Curnow who married Sophia, & was buried 19 Jan 1904 Illogan age 59. Ah well. Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 11, 2013 14:54:13 GMT -5
It would be of some help if we knew the occupation of William Curnow although being at Towednack suggests the probability it was either farmer or miner. But still, it would be useful to know. Without the marriage certificate I think the sum total of our knowledge of William Curnow is that he died sometime between 1876 and 1881 ...... Somewhere!!! Have you tried searching the newspapers for a possible report of his death?? If, as seems likely, he died overseas then it is possible that the news of his demise was reported in the press. CT
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Post by sue on Oct 12, 2013 6:21:20 GMT -5
I'm afraid I shall be keeping my £9.25ps for other more pressing needs (if any!), not these 2 x Wm Curnow marriages Jun Q 1875.
The only newspaper archives I have access to are the online West Briton transcripts - nothing suitable there - & "Chronicling America" : nothing there.
I've searched FS relentlessly but found nothing vaguely right, also Castle Gardens; not even a suitable US living William Curnow bigamously remarried unknown to widow Elizabeth.....
So, hit the buffers again ........
Sue
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 12, 2013 9:53:58 GMT -5
Hmm - well it seems that we need to ask for a little more help. Perhaps Londoner might be able to check her newspaper resources to see if a likely report might be found. At least we know that we only need to search the period from about 1876 to the 1881 Census so hopefully someone might be able to turn something up. What about South African sites. Rootsweb hosts some SA groups plus there is NAAIRS where you might find an indexed death reference or even perhaps a reference to probate information. Worth a try anyway. CT
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Post by sue on Oct 12, 2013 10:10:30 GMT -5
All help on this gratefully received, that's for sure!
Meanwhile I will try what I can find in the way of SA records, but what with Ancestry24 for SA closing down earlier this year, that's a real long shot to find anything at all for South Africa - well that's what I've found anyway. I will give it a go, though.....
Sue
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Post by londoner on Oct 12, 2013 10:45:17 GMT -5
Not a complete answer but this might help. 1876 February at rose wall hill the wife of wm curnow, a daughter. Sorry about rubbish typing just getting used to the toy!
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