Christine - after finding yet another variation of Walters I think I am now in a position to say that your John was the son of William Walters and Elizabeth Johns of Crowan!
The new variation is WaltArs rather then WaltErs and unfortunately FamilySearch/IGI does not recognize the similarity with its phonetic checks.
Consequently it took me some time to find what I was looking for.
Basically I have been trying to link several pieces of 'teasing' information together but I found that I was missing at least one vital item.
To find that item I had to search the Crowan Parish Register which is how I came across the name recorded as Waltars.
So let me see if I can explain this so that you can easily understand it.
First thing is your concern/confusion about John and Emma being at Bodmin in 1841. This has actually helped me to find the answers!
Using the Marriage record and the 1841 Census as starting points I started searching for baptismal records for the children. What I found was interesting and, as I said, helped me sort things out.
It is possible that I have not found all children for John and Emma and there is certainly at least one baptism I have not found - but here is what I have:-
Eliza Richards daughter of John and Emma Walters of Lanescot baptised 28th November 1830 at Tywardreath
William son of John and Emma Waters of Chacewater baptised 25th December 1829 at Chacewater
John son of John and Emma Walters of Tywardreath baptised 17th February 1833 at Tywardreath (buried 25th June 1833 at Tywardreath age 1)
John son of John and Emma Walters of Tywardreath baptised 12th October 1834 at Tywardreath
Now, we know from the Census that daughter Elizabeth was born about 1827 so hers was a delayed baptism but there is nothing in the baptism record to indicate her age. And it is also curious that she was not baptised with William in 1829 at Chacewater.
The Census also tells us that there was a son John born in 1840 (age 10mths in 1841) but I have not yet been able to find either a baptism for him or a burial for the John of 1834.
There may have been other children between 1834 and 1840 but if so then it would appear they did not survive.
Basically all of this was confirming what you had already told us but working through it myself helped get the brain moving in the right direction.
I should also mention that at the time of the Marriage both John and Emma are recorded as 'of Kenwyn' so John had been resident there for some time at least.
The above information shows that this family moved around with the marriage at Kenwyn, probably two children born at Chacewater then across to Tywardreath and final to Bodmin by 1841.
So, having established this I then turned my attention to the Vincent Walters you mentioned having spent time with your family in NZ during the 1800s. I was rather curious about that and it did suggest a probable close relationship.
My suspicion was that John and Vincent may have been brothers but without any sort of evidence it was suspicion only.
Working on the hypothesis that John may have been the one born at Crowan to William and Elizabeth I made up the following family:-
William Walters of Crowan married Elizabeth Johns 31st October 1802 at Wendron
Witnesses - Richard Walters and James (?smudged) Johns
(Richard Walters may help identify parents for William but that can be worked on later.)
The children I found for William and Elizabeth:-
John WATERS baptised 4th September 1803 Crowan (born 23rd June)
William WATERS baptised 18th January 1807 Crowan (born 2nd January) - buried 9th October 1810 at Crowan age 3
William WATERS baptised 12th December 1810 Crowan (born 7th November)
Vincent WALTERS baptised 25th July 1813 St Hilary
Jenifer WATERS baptised 18th February 1816 Marazion
I did check for other possible marriages for William Wa(l)ters and Elizabeth but it seems most likely that Vincent and Jenifer both belong to the family. But the question still remained about whether this was indeed your John who married Emma Richards.
With still not enough to go on I decided to see what more I could find about Vincent Walters given that he can be placed in NZ with John later on. And what I found is largely the reason I asked what more you could tell me about Vincent and his family!
Vincent WALTERS, bachelor, and Ann SANDY, spinster, both of the Parish were married by Banns and with consent of parents 24th December 1835 at ST VEEP
Witnesses - Edward Remfry, Samuel Kinsman
Two things of note can be found in this record:-
1. St Veep is quite close to Tywardreath and the marriage occurred around the time John Walters is now known to have been at Tywardreath
2. Edward Remfry was a witness and one of the witnesses at the marriage of John Walters and Emma Richards was also an Edward Remfry!
I have not been able to find Vincent and Ann in the 1841 Census and I can so far find no children baptised to them. But there was a Vincent John Walters age 1 buried at Tywardreath in 1837 and then a Vincent Walters age 2 buried at Bodmin in 1845.
We now have reasonable evidence to suggest that Vincent was the brother of John Walters who married Emma Richards. It is more than coincidence that they are both in the Tywardreath area and then, seemingly, both at Bodmin at about the same time.
But Edward Remfry is the one that got me thinking and in the end it is he who ties this all together.
Unfortunately I only have a printed transcript of the St Veep marriage so I am not able to compare signiatures with the Kenwyn record of John and Emma. So the next best thing was to see if I could find another way to identify Edward Remfry and see if it might be the same man involved at each marriage.
This is another name that has many variations and it can be spelt with either 'n' or 'm'. That does make searching a little harder because FamilySearch/igi (just as with 'a' and 'e') does not recognise 'n' and 'm' as possible phonetic variations in the same name.
BUT:-
Edward REMFREY of Tywardreath marryed
Elizabeth WALTERS, sojourner in Tywardreath, by Banns 4th December 1824 at Tywardreath
Witnesses - Ann Remfry,
John WaltersThis time I had two records from which to compare signiatures!
And the John Walters who witnesses this marriage was the same John Walters who married Emma Richards! ;D
Not only that but Edward Remfry is the same man who also witnessed the marriage of John Walters which then suggests that it is most likely he who also witnessed the marriage of Vincent Walters at St Veep.
And just one thing missing! If you look at the list of children for William and Elizabeth Walters you will not that there is no daughter Elizabeth.
I checked the 1851 Census and found Edward and Elizabeth Remfry living at Liskeard. From that I learned that:-
1. Edward was born at Gwennap about 1803/4
2. Elizabeth was born at Crowan about 1805/6
Enter the Crowan Parish Register:-
Elizabeth daughter of William and Elizabeth WALTARS baptised 10th February 1805 Crowan (born 24th January)
and
Richard won of William and Elizabeth WALTARS baptised 8th February 1809 Crowan (born 23rd January)
That now links John, Vincent and Elizabeth Walters together as children of William Walters and Elizabeth Johns.
Finally, for now, is the possible reason that John and Emma named their daughter Eliza Richards Walters. I believe it likely that she was named for Emma's sister and it appears that this is the family:-
Michael Richards married Grace Moyle 25th September 1800 at Kenwyn
Michael bp. 17th May 1801 Kenwyn
Eliza bp. 1st April 1804 Kenwyn
Emma bp. 19th May 1806 Kenwyn age 4 months
That should all give you something to think about. ;D
CT
To find that item I had to search the Crowan Parish Register which is how I came across the name recorded as Waltars.
