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Post by davidkingmartin on Jan 30, 2008 12:59:32 GMT -5
I am still seeking info. relating to John Martin, my g-gfather, b.1848 abt, Ludgvan area, wife Levinia Rowe, b1854, Madron area. It is his parentage that I am trying to establish. Parents may be Grace Reed Martin b.1826abt., born Jeffrey (possibly), husband John (or Thomas) b1821abt. My g-gfather had four siblings: Blanche Dunstan Martin (why Dunstan?) b.1853, and William T Martin and Mary E Martin. The parents of Grace may be John Jeffrey b.1801, and Elizabeth, with 8 children. Elizabeth`s maiden name could be "Martin"...just to confuse things!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 9, 2008 11:31:21 GMT -5
David, Please supply any further detail you can regarding this problem so I may better help you. Has this information come from Census records. If so then please supply me some details so that I can look them up and try to determine some further information for you. Also - suggest you contact Bill Curnow (Ludgvan Online Parish Clerk) if any of these events occurred at Ludgvan. Would appreciate details of your findings and I will do my best from there. Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on Feb 9, 2008 15:12:57 GMT -5
Ian, Thanks for the response. The info. comes largely from Census returns (and another source: my late father, Joseph H Martin, a Cornish Bard). Also: other person`s Trees from Ancestry.co (not always reliable). I am trying to "fine tune" the info. John Martin b.Dec.1847 1X227 (Redruth). Middle name: poss.Jeffery. Father may be Thomas b.1826?, m.Mar.1844 Grace Reed Jeffery, not on 1861 Census or later (believed to have died young). Siblings may be William and Richard and father poss.William b1791. J J Martin may have died in Johannesburg RSA sometime after 1891. His wife was Levinia Rowe, b.1854 . Chilren incl. Joseph Martin b. 1875 Ludgvan, d.1949...my g-father. I am also trying to "track" Levinia`s g-parents. Her mother is probably Mary Ann Crowell b.1819 St Chafer.
David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 10, 2008 11:20:47 GMT -5
Hi David, Have you checked for any of these people in the 1851 (and 1841) Census records. If not, and if you are not able to do so, then please let me know and I will make an attempt for you. Also, the possible death in RSA is something I may be able to pursue but I might need a little more information to work from. I have some contacts who would be probably willing to check this stuff but it will depend on what basic information you can supply and also on the area of demise. Give me all the information you can that might help and I will make some enquiries for you. Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on Feb 11, 2008 9:10:30 GMT -5
Ian, Thanks for the response. Yes, I have explored the 1841 and `51 Census data, and continue to pursue possibilities. John J Martin: RSA, Johannesburg, miner, buried in Primrose Cemetery. He had 3 siblings: Blanche Dunstan Martin (married a Goldsworthy), Her mother, Grace R. Martin(Jeffery) was living with her in 1901, widowed (Census). William, b1855. Mary Elizabeth M., b1850. I have traced them all, but it is clues on the antecedents that I seek ie, pre-1841 births etc. D.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 11, 2008 12:52:34 GMT -5
OK David - keep me informed and, if you wish, I will make contact with RSA people for further information if required.
You may need to supply me with a little more early stuff (even as a reminder) given I am on a six-week (or so) catching-up journey.
Keep me updated and I will do what I can.
Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on Mar 13, 2008 12:41:12 GMT -5
Some earlier material: b.1848/47, Ludgvan IX227, m.Levinia Rowe, b.1854. Children incl Joseph Martin b.1875, Ludgvan, d.1949. Father is Thomas or John Martin, b.abt.1820, m.1844? 9/240, m.Grace Reed Martin b.1824 (her maiden name Jeffery?). It is John?Thomas I am trying to trace: may have died in a rockfall in a mine. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 13, 2008 16:42:07 GMT -5
David - believe I have found the family of John and Lavinia in the 1881 Census at Hellangove, Gulval. John and his brother William T Martin were listed as being born in Ludgvan, as were all of John's children enumerated at the time. Lavinia is recorded as having been born at Madron. I am unable to help with Ludgvan records at the moment but you might try and contact Bill Curnow who is the Online Parish Clerk for that Parish. You say that Lavinia may be Lavinia Rowe. In the 1881 Census she is, as stated, listed as having been born at Madron. I have just checked records for that Parish and can find no record of a Lavinia (Levinia) Rowe and can find no record of a baptism for anyone named Lavinia in the relevant time-frame. This was purely a check on Madron Parish Records and not any of the Chapels. The 1861 Census is interesting. I have found the family you describe living at Gwennap Grace Reed Martin, widow, 37, bn Gwennap John Jeffery Martin, son, 13, bn Gwennap Mary Elizabeth Martin, 11, bn Gwennap Blanche Dunstan Martin, 8, bn Gwennap William Martin, 6, bn Gwennap In 1851 John J Martin is at Gwennap with his 48 year old widowed grandmother Elizabeth Jeffery and her other children. I appear to be offline again but am yet to find John J Martin's parents in the 1851 Census. All seems most confusing at the moment with all these events now being at Gwennap. Other information you have supplied suggests Ludgvan and Madron connections. (Now back on line) Have now found Grace Martin in 1881 with her daughter Blanch D Goldsworthy along with two grandchildren. Once again all are stated as being born in Gwennap. I have now found John J Martin in the 1871 Census living with his widowed mother, Grace, and siblings Blanch D Martin and William Martin with the stated birthplace for all being Gwennap once again. I am now concerned about your identification of John Martin with wife Lavinia given all events about this particular couple indicate births in Ludgvan and, in Lavinia's case, Madron. Please let me know any further information you may have as I currently suspect some incorrect data having been introduced into your scenario. This is certainly an interesting problem and I would like to help sort it out but, as mentioned above, there seems to be quite a lot of conflicting data. This is about the best I can do for now and will be awaiting further information from you to see what more I can find. I currently believe that John and Lavinia Martin are not connected to the family of Grace Reed Martin of Gwennap based on what I have now found and outlined above. Would really appreciate something more to work with so that I might help sort this problem for you. In anticipation - Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on Mar 13, 2008 17:32:49 GMT -5
Ian: Thank you! Most interesting. I have the Census data to which you refer, courtesy Ancestry.co but,as you suggest, there may be incorrect data in my scenario and I need to re-appraise the info. that I have culled from various sources....specifically the John/Levinia data not linking, apparently, to Grace R Martin and, therefore to the Jeffery family. There are lots of Martins and Rowes in the area and I am not too familiar with the geography living, as I do, in east Kent. More info. to follow, I hope. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 13, 2008 17:48:46 GMT -5
You are a lot closer than I am. David - if you could supply me with all the accurate data you have available linking back to around the period and people in question I might be able to find some other avenues to help. It is obvious that there is conflicting information involved so we should look at getting that sorted out. I am happy to try and help and will do so to the best of my ability. Should the South African connection prove to be linked to your family then I now have contacts in that Country who may be able to help. I would first like to confirm a few things prior to contacting these people though. Let me know as much as you can and I will check it and see what more I can find. Ian
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Post by davidkingmartin on Mar 14, 2008 8:41:32 GMT -5
Ian: Thanks for the reply. Working from the near-present back in time: Joseph Martin, my g-father, b.Ludgvan 1875, d1949, buried Ludgvan with wife Sarah (King) d.1950. His mother:Levinia, or Lavinia, on 1891 Census, and others, with John Martin, the husband, aged 45 in 1891, living Castle Gate (Ludgvan) which was still occupied by the Martins many decades later (I knew the place as a child). 1901: Levinia Martin (Rowe) aged 47 living with her father William at the same place. In 1881 John Martin farmed in the area(Hellangove, Gulval), confirmed by Census and by written accounts left by my late father, J H Martin (d1998, buried Ludgvan).
It would appear that the faulty data relates to Grace, as you suggest which means that the Jeffery people are not related (but there could be a connection). Which brings me back to John b.abt 1848 and the identity of his parents. My father states that he is buried in RSA, Johannesburg, Primrose Cemetery before 1901. Many Martins incl. John spent a lot of time abroad as miners, in Canada, RSA, Australia...Some came home periodically, others did not return. No need to pursue the RSA link just yet: we need more detail from closer to home! David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 14, 2008 9:50:50 GMT -5
This is looking a little more promising David.
Will see what I can do in the next couple of days to find out just where your Martin family fits.
Will also try to find out some information from South Africa for you once I have checked all other supplied data.
Ian
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Post by londoner on Mar 14, 2008 12:08:32 GMT -5
:)This looks like your Lavinia:
IGI 3 March 1843 Madron, William Rowe (father Richard) married Hannah Giles Williams (father John) BMD has Hannah Penzance 9 359 and William 9 219 I have found before that partners can be on different pages - possibly an early transcription error.
Lavinia Rowe b sept 1852 Penzance 5c 307
There is a baptism at Madron 8 Feb 1844 of Lavinia William Rowe da of William & Hannah Giles Rowe I assume this Lavinia must have died but cannot find baptism for the later one.
1851 Census at Mulfra HO107; Piece: 1918; Folio: 513; Page: 40; William 27 Anna 25 William H 1
1861 Census at Mulfra RG9; Piece: 1593; Folio: 54; Page: 6; (transcribed Bowe) William 41 Hannah 38 William H 11 Lavinia 8 Hannah 4 Elizabeth1
1871 Mulfra Transcribed as Rause >:(RG10; Piece: 2339; Folio: 86; Page: 7; William 51 Anna Giles 47 Lavinia 18 Hannah J 16 Elizabeth11
1881 Amalwhidden, Towednack RG11; Piece: 2342; Folio: 67; Page: 3; William 61 Hannah (b Gulval) John 18 Hannah Lavers (da) Hannah Lavers g.da William H 31 Mary29 Elizabeth ?months John 8
Now to try to find John Martin - do you have the marriage cert for John & Lavinia? that would give us his father's name.
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Post by davidkingmartin on Mar 14, 2008 17:40:51 GMT -5
Extemely helpful! I shall need to re-write part of my Tree. No m cert. to hand for John and Lavinia. I am still seeking "clues" in my late father`s papers. David.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Mar 15, 2008 9:18:23 GMT -5
Lavinia Williams Rowe, of Mulfra, age 5, was buried at Madron 5th September 1848. Still cannot find a baptism for the later Lavinia but, given the Registration District is Penzance, she could have been baptised at Ludgvan or one of the Chapels. She certainly does not appear at Madron and I do not have the relevant records for Penzance. Suggest that any further information that might be located be posted here and we will see if we can find out something more. 'londoner' - can you please supply some further details from the Census records you listed in a previous note. I am damned if I can find the information you mentioned and have tried many combinations. For now I must leave this and check on some other queries. Will look into things further as additional data arrives. Ian
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