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Post by elizbarnes on Apr 27, 2011 1:34:57 GMT -5
Sarah Major married Matthew Quick s/o Francis Quick in 1685. I have found a few trees with Timothye the Younger Major as her father, but can't find the source of these records. Can anyone help. I have estimated her birth, probably a little earlier than it was . Guessing marriage age as 30.
Is there a will around with this detail in?
If not Timothye the Younger Major, does anyone know who her parents might me.
Elizabeth
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 27, 2011 5:49:08 GMT -5
Elizabeth - I would hazard a guess and suggest that there is no known source. The big problem with these online trees is that one person, rightly or wrongly, comes to the conclusion that Sarah might have been the daughter of Timothy and then puts that information into their family three online where everyone can see it. From there it becomes unsubstantiated fact and every other person decides to add the data to their own tree. And on an don it goes. Any link to Timothy I should think is pure guess-work - and part of this might be attributed to those clever people who submitted information to the IGI! I note there are at least four records in IGI for Sarah born 'about' 1662 or 'about' 1659. You will find Timothy named as the father in some and Stephen named as the father in others as there was also a Sarah Major who married Lawrence Cubert at Towednack in 1682. To my knowledge there is no Will for the younger Timothy Major. There is a PCC Will for Timothy Major dated 1655 in which his named sons include Timothy and Stephen but the only grandchild named (after a quick read) appears to be Jane. Stephen Major left a Will in 1700 but I have not seen a copy of that document or even extracts from it. Unless something can be found to provide some sort of evidence to support linking Sarah to any parents I think it best to leave her 'unattached'. The best I can offer is that Sarah would have been born no earlier than about 1648 and no later than about 1666 given she was married in 1682 and her last known child was baptised in 1696. Don't fall into the trap of linking people without at least some sort of comment to indicate why you have made that link. Preferably it is better not to make the link at all unless you have something to support it. Names of children will often give clues but in this case there is no Timothy Quick and no Stephen Quick and the wives of these two (as far as I can ascertain) were named Jane and Mary! CT
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Post by elizbarnes on Apr 28, 2011 0:10:48 GMT -5
Thanks Ct,
I have begun doing just that, leaving unsubstantiated parents off now,. Didn't originally but found so much that did not add up that I am slowly going over all my older work ad removing people.
Pity that there isn't any thing to connect Sarah to parents. Guess that branch will not grow.
Is IGI correct or are there entries just like in Ancestry where people copy errors ad nauseum.
I know that there is a lot of copying which is why my Ancestry tree is now private. I know I have mistakes in mine and am happy being corrected, but I find quite a few people get very upset. It just takes time to fix 'em up once you have the correct information.
Elizabeth
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 28, 2011 4:48:49 GMT -5
Elizabeth - IGI is like any other transcribed work and is prone to transcription errors. I have made them when doing transcriptions for the OPC but as they are found they are corrected as quickly as possible. It seems a little more difficult to do that with IGI. But that is not the real problem. IGI is substantially correct IF RESTRICTED TO records that are genuinely transcribed from the original documents. These records are assigned Batch Numbers which are generally prefixed with P or C for Baptisms and M for Marriages. (You will also find some that are prefixed with E which I think are okay.) Anything else should be treated with Extreme Caution or even with outright Contempt!!! The two main problems are;- 1. Some transcribers took it upon themselves to 'alter' the records by changing any date that fell between January 1st and March 24th before 1853. They altered the year component by adding One Year to it to reflect what the date would be under the Gregorian Calendar. 2. Somehow LDS Members were allowed (perhaps even encouraged?) to add extraneous data such as 'born about'. This added data has choked the Index so much that it is very difficult and extremely frustrating to find anything of real value. In your words 'added data ad nauseum'. I could go on for ages about this because it gets me so damned angry. In the case of Sarah Major - there are a couple of ways you could go. If you are 'reasonably satisfied' that Timothy might be her father then you could link her to that family BUT make sure that you have appropriate notes suggesting why she is there and that it is 'not yet proved'. You could leave her unattached to anyone but add some research notes explaining that there are at least two possible alternatives and that research is ongoing. If we could get a look at the 1700 Will of Stephen Major it might well help provide an answer. Hopefully Stephen would have explained enough in that Will to tell us who his children were and who his daughters might have married. If Stephen named his daughter as 'Sarah Cubert' then it would suggest a very strong possibility that Sarah Quick was indeed Timothy's daughter. CT
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Post by jmajor on Apr 13, 2014 0:36:14 GMT -5
Elizabeth - I would hazard a guess and suggest that there is no known source. The big problem with these online trees is that one person, rightly or wrongly, comes to the conclusion that Sarah might have been the daughter of Timothy and then puts that information into their family three online where everyone can see it. From there it becomes unsubstantiated fact and every other person decides to add the data to their own tree. And on an don it goes. Any link to Timothy I should think is pure guess-work - and part of this might be attributed to those clever people who submitted information to the IGI! I note there are at least four records in IGI for Sarah born 'about' 1662 or 'about' 1659. You will find Timothy named as the father in some and Stephen named as the father in others as there was also a Sarah Major who married Lawrence Cubert at Towednack in 1682. To my knowledge there is no Will for the younger Timothy Major. There is a PCC Will for Timothy Major dated 1655 in which his named sons include Timothy and Stephen but the only grandchild named (after a quick read) appears to be Jane. Stephen Major left a Will in 1700 but I have not seen a copy of that document or even extracts from it. Unless something can be found to provide some sort of evidence to support linking Sarah to any parents I think it best to leave her 'unattached'. The best I can offer is that Sarah would have been born no earlier than about 1648 and no later than about 1666 given she was married in 1682 and her last known child was baptised in 1696. Don't fall into the trap of linking people without at least some sort of comment to indicate why you have made that link. Preferably it is better not to make the link at all unless you have something to support it. Names of children will often give clues but in this case there is no Timothy Quick and no Stephen Quick and the wives of these two (as far as I can ascertain) were named Jane and Mary! CT
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Post by jmajor on Apr 13, 2014 0:57:07 GMT -5
Hi Elizabeth, Below is the proof that Sarah Major, married to Matthew Quicks was the daughter of Timothy Major. I have also included the will of Timothy Major or Maior, the Elder and other records of these two ancestors:
1. Will of Timothy Major, the younger
1705 - In the name of God, Amen. I Timothy Major of the Parish of St. Ives in the county of Cornewall Yeoman being very Sicke and Weake but of Sound and perfect mind and understanding do make this my last will and testament in manner and forme following (that is to say) ffirst I comend my soull to God that gave it me by body I remitt to the Earth to be decently buryed att the discretion of my Execretrex hereafter named and that my debts funrraly and Legacyes shall be paid by mine Execretrix hereafter named.
Item. I give Unto my Son in law Matthew Quicks of Towednack and Sarah his wife the sum of one Shilling a peece to be paid to them by mine Execretix within one yeare after my decease.
Item. I give unto my Son in law George Eustace and Catherine his wife one shilling a peece to be paid as aforesaid.
Item I give unto my Son in law Alexander Bryan of Camborne and Margery his wife the sum of one Shilling each to be paid by mine execretix as aforesaid.
Item. I give to my Son in law William Leacher of Lelant (no wife named) John James of St Ives and Elizabeth his wife one shilling each to to paid as aforesaid.
Item I give unto my Son Henry Major All that my Estate in Hellesvean in the Parish of St. Ives aforesaid now in my possion by vertue of a lease heretofore granted by James Praed, Esq unto FFrancis Quicks of Towednack afore. (A few words written and crossed out.) Bearing date the first day of November in the yeare of our Lord One thousand Six hundred Seaventy three and by him by two severall Assignments the one beareing date first day of January in the yeare of our Lord One thousand six hundred Seaventy Four and the other dated the last day of January in the year of our Lord one thousand Six hundred Seaventy Seaven. Assigned the same unto me the said Timothy Major. To hold unto this said Henry Major my Son during the terms in the same revised Indenture of Lawe and Assignments thereof retained upon this Condition that my said Son Henry doe and shall pay yearely unto my Son FFrancis Major the Sume of five pounds a year for the terme of three years, from the day of my decease or dth (death) that the said Estate shall remain rontiuine? be unto my said Son Ffrancis until any said legacy shall be fully paid. Item I give unto my son FFrancis his said Sums of five pounds a year for three years as aforesaid. Item
I give Unto my Daugther Jane Major all that my tenementralled called or known by the name of Carnestubba To Hold to her her Executrix and Assigne from the time of decease for and during a terme therein to by Assigned from Stephen Major my Brother by an assignment bearing the date of fourth day of December in the yeare of our Lord One thousand Six hundred Sixty and two And all the rest of my money goods and estates reall and personall whatsoever and wheresoever I give and bequeathe unto my loveing wife Jane Major whome I made whole and Sole Executrix of this my last will and Testament hereby revokeing all other will or wills or Testaments by and all any time heretofore made or written. where of I have here unto Sett my hand and Seale this eighte day of Aprill in the yeare of our Lord One thousand seven hundred and five.
The Marke of Timothy X Major
Sealed published and declared by this said Timothy Major to be his last Will and Testment in our presence in in the same way attested by us James Hines, marks of Richard Major (wrote a large R), Tho Sprigge
2. St. Ives Statistics (Cornwall Hearth and Poll Taxes 1660-1664, Edited and Published by T.L.Stoate, Lower Court, Almondsbury Bristol, 1981, 85,86, xviii.) Listed in the St. Ives Borough for the Cornwall Hearth Tax: John Major, 1 ex; Timothy Major, 1 ret short; Stephen Major 1 ex; William Major, 1 ex now Jane Major.
3. DEATH: Burial records of St. Ives, Cornwall, England "1656 Tymothy Major, the Elder."
4. Will proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1658 pg 636, FHL# 92248 (The civil war disrupted the probate process. Parliament abolished the ecclesiastical courts in 1653, but restored them in 1661. Wills proved during this interruption are filed at the Prerogative Court of Canterbury.)
In the name of God Amin, this sixth dae of November in the year of our Lord God One Thouseand Six hundred ffife four I Timothy Maior (note the spelling "Maior")of the Borgh of St. Ives, County of Cornwall, yeoman allthough sick of bode yet of good perfect and sound memory thanks? be Almightie God therefore do make and ? my Last will and Testament tesimony and purging my sole to.. Almightie God. And this is my last will and testament in manner & forme following. First commending soule to Allmightie God my creator and to his sonne...& forgive all my sinnes and offenses here and after this unstable life...by the passion of our Savior Jesus Christ...
Item I give and bequeath to my sonne John Maior one shilling
Item I give and bequeath unto Stephen Maior one Shilling.
Item I give unto William Maior my sonne one shilling to be paid them within three months after my decease.
Item I give and bequeath unto Timothy Maior my sonne one baye mare colt about three years old and one ? fallow on now pastoring? in Treloyhan (a villiage in St. Ives, a mile east from the town ['the habitation in the grove'; Welsh tre llwyn], the villiage is now corruptly called 'Trelyon,' 'Trelion,' and even 'Treline.'" Mathews, pg 416.) one ? with all boards half boards timber record of timber whatsoever belonging same.
Item, I give and bequeath unto Jane (who appears to be child born in 1654, so is age 2) my Granddaughter by Timothy Maior one young soro? of three years old and one ? ? phallow and all the rest of my goods, and Chattles not formerly given or bequeathed moveable or unmoveable with in doors or without doors I give and beqeath unto the said Jane Maior whom I made my whole and sole executrix of my last will and testament. And ? and appoint Ffrancis Robinson and Richard Lirse? of St. Ives gent. overseers of this my last will and testament revoking all fomrer wills wherefore over heretofore by me made and ...In witnes wherein I the said Timothy Maior have hereunto published my hand and put to my seal over the testament ? above written Timothy Major (here Major it is spelled with a "j")...Subsribers Francis Robinson, Timothy Majors (spelled with a "J") signe Jane Timothyes Seyne? (sign
The eight daie of November? one Thousand six hundred ffifty eight...came forth? of Adminstration to Timothy Maior the ffather and guardatan Lawfullie assigned to Jane Maior a minor...sole exectrux named in the last will and testament of Timothy Maior Sale of the Burow of St. Ives in the County of Corwnall...Julie the 5th 1658
5. In the Borough Accounts of St. Ives dated 1619, "The Lande: Timothye Maior 9d." (Mathews, John Hobson, A History of the Parishes of Saint Ives, Lelant, Towednack and Zennor, in the County of Cornwall, 180.)
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Post by jmajor on Apr 13, 2014 1:07:59 GMT -5
I am looking to for any further information on Timothye Major or Maior, the elder who was born about 1600? perhaps in Ireland and died 1656 in St. Ives, Cornwall.
I received this email from Frances Major in 2010
From: frances major <fmajor5@yahoo.com> Sent: Sun, December 12, 2010 9:53:23 PM Subject: The Major Family Genealogy
My father, William Major, came from St. Ives, Cornwall (b. 1885, d. 1962). He emigrated to America in 1906. Many of his relatives are still in Cornwall. In the 1970's my mother decided to do the family history on my father's famliy. She enlisted two cousins, still living in St. Ives, to assist her in the research. The cousins went to the Parish Church and wrote down the dates of birth from 1654 for any name associated with our family. The record showed a lot of entries for your family, Tympathy Major and children, as well as the names and birthdates of the children of Henry and Elizabeth Rosewall.
While my cousins were at the Parish Church, they found the following information: "The first Major to live in St. Ives was a Captain Timothy Major, who came over with the Irish Militia at the time of the building of the Parish Church (finished in 1410). He became very friendly with a man who carved the pew ends in the church, Ralph Clies, by name. They made a bargain that his son should be named "Clies," and there has been a 'Clies' in the family ever since. (This information was taken from an old book in the Study of the Parish Church.) There was an Ernest Major who did some carving in the Parish Church in the 15th century."
My grandfather rented land from the Earl for a farm. He also had a meat market in the town of St. Ives. Relatives have provided me with a picture of the meat market. I visited the St. Ives Archives office when I was in St. Ives in 2001. They have a old map which gives the local name of Major's Hill for the site where my grandfather rented the land. It was close to the cemetery.
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Post by trencrom on Apr 14, 2014 3:51:43 GMT -5
Hi jmajor,
I suggest you check the early BTs for St Ives for any details of Majors in St Ives for the period prior to 1664. You should also check the published History of St Ives, Towednack, Lelant and Zennor for any references to the name for the same periods. In addition, check Stoate's published Tudor Subsidies for Cornwall. That should indicate whether there were any Majors in St Ives (or Cornwall generally)in the pre-1600 period.
Trencrom
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ddrury5840
Noweth
looking for any leads for timothy major (or maior) born before 1600.
Posts: 10
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Post by ddrury5840 on Oct 29, 2015 20:49:18 GMT -5
I'm new and just messed up my post of a few minutes ago so I'm beginning again. I descend from the same Major line as your other correspondents. Some Majors of this line are referred to as tinners. Did this mean they owned the mines or were they workers in them? Does anyone know what their connection was? Thanks, Don Drury
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 30, 2015 1:32:10 GMT -5
Welcome to the site Don. The word 'tinner' was occupational and generally referred to miner employed in the mining of tin. CT
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ddrury5840
Noweth
looking for any leads for timothy major (or maior) born before 1600.
Posts: 10
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Post by ddrury5840 on Nov 12, 2015 23:03:03 GMT -5
Thanks CT Now since we are talking about the various Sarah Majors I'd like to query about them.
Do any of you know which Sarah Major married Lawrence Cubert in june of 1682? I think the most likely would be Sarah d/o Stephen Major and Mary but I have nothing definite. I have also seen Sarah d/o Timothy and Jane listed as married to Lawrence before she married Matthew Quick.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 13, 2015 6:06:58 GMT -5
I have nothing at the moment that could correctly identify Lawrence Cubert's wife but I very much doubt that she would have been the daughter of Timothy.
Lawrence Cubert and Sarah Major married in 1682 and he was buried at St Ives in 1714 followed by wife Sarah in 1731. Lawrence and Sarah had at least four children with baptisms for three found at St Ives - Thomas 1683, Mary 1688 and Lawrence 1690.
Matthew Quick and Sarah Major were married in 1685 with children baptised 1685, 1687, 1689, 1691, 1693 and 1696. Matthew was buried in 1728 and wife Sarah in 1724.
As you can see, it would have have been a physical impossibility for the same Sarah Major to have been involved in both marriages.
One thing that might be helpful is that there is one child of Lawrence Cubert for whom I had not been able to find a baptism. Lewis son of Lawrence Cubert was buried at St Ives 12th October 1682. After searching Familysearch for possible baptisms for Sarah Major I found the following baptism:-
Lewis base son of Sarah Major baptised 12th June 1682 St Ives
A month later on 8th July Lawrence Cubert and Sarah Major were married so I strongly suspect the above baptism is for the child later buried as Lewis son of Lawrence Cubert.
You made the following comment which I find interesting:-
The earliest recorded Stephen Major marriage I have is that of Stephen Major to Mary Paynter which is recorded at St Ives but apparently took place at Penzance 3rd October 1688. This is SIX YEARS AFTER Lawrence Cubert and Sarah Major were married!
I can find no baptism record for any Sarah Major prior to 1700 in Cornwall but assuming she was born at St Ives then I can find just two families baptising children during the period Sarah would have been born - Timothy and William. We know Sarah daughter of Timothy married Matthew Quick so the logical conclusion might be that if Lawrence Cubert's wife was of St Ives then she may have been a daughter of William.
CT
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ddrury5840
Noweth
looking for any leads for timothy major (or maior) born before 1600.
Posts: 10
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Post by ddrury5840 on Nov 13, 2015 22:43:13 GMT -5
I found this will that I did not know I had.
Here is the will of Stephen Major dated 4 June 1697
I Stephen Major of the burrogh of St, Ives in the county of Cornwall being in my perfect health & memory do make this my last will and testament in mannor and forme following:
Item: I bequeathe my soul into the hands of almighty God my lord and savior and my body committ to the earth in hope of a joyful resurrection at the last day.
Item: I give to my son Ephraim Major one Shilling to be paid by my Executrix
Item: I give to my son Richard one Shilling to be paid by my Executrix
Item: I give to my daughter Sarah the wife of Lawrence Cuberte? one Shilling to be paid by my executrix
Item: I give to my wife Mary and my daughter Mary whom I make my executrixes all the rest of my chattles moveable and unmovable equally to be divided betwix them desiring the Lord to bless them all and to live in love together and to be a help and comfort to each other. In witness whom? unto I have set my hand and seal this twenty fourth day of June Anno Domini 1697.
The sign of Stephen X Major
Signed, subscribed and dated in presence of
John Nance
John Stephens
Alian Nance
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Post by sue on Nov 14, 2015 8:33:05 GMT -5
Hmm, this thread gets my interest, because one day, I will pin down who my ancestor Catherine Major c1730s/40s/50s St Ivesish was.... I'm thinking, Stephen Major father of Sarah (Major) Cubert probably tried to confuse us future people by having 2 wives called Mary........ Given CT's 1688 date of marriage Stephen Major to Mary Paynter, which I now see on OPC, I've delved into the FS St Ives digitial images online for St Ives, Don...... and found : Mary w of Stephen Major buried St Ives 29 March 1688 (record was treating late March as the beginning of the 1688 year.) This is near the top of the page on image 61 of 317 in Burials 1653 - 1812 St Ives, under Cornwall; under England Cornwall & Devon Parish Registers - which you'll want to look at for yourself, Don. And it's 6 months prior to Stephen's marriage October 1688 to Mary Paynter - just about long enough to count as a period of mourning... This may, perhaps, be the answer....... Sue
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ddrury5840
Noweth
looking for any leads for timothy major (or maior) born before 1600.
Posts: 10
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Post by ddrury5840 on Nov 14, 2015 11:59:33 GMT -5
Hi sue,
Thanks for the reference. Stephen had children by both wives. This will help sort out who their parents were.
You probably know this already but in the range of dates you mentioned I have Catherine (1727) d/o Stephen Major and Mary Stevens, Catherine (1737) d/o Ephraim Major and Mary Noall, and Catherine (1761) d/o Henry Major tinner. and Honor Simmons.
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