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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 15:47:51 GMT -5
We are not allowed to talk about the 1911 are we?
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Post by Sarch on Nov 19, 2010 0:09:49 GMT -5
Hi Lamorna I only have access to 1901 & 1911 Census from the LDS Family History Centre as they have a link there to Find My Past and I can use it for free. I usually store up a lot of questions and then go there to use their computer. ;D Do you have access to 1911? I suspect that John James Quick's parents are from Devon and not Cornwall unless you have a link back to Cornwall from Devon for this family? Sarch
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2010 0:41:33 GMT -5
I see no reason why we cannot talk about the 1911 Census. It is a genealogical tool after all and it is widely known that it exists and is available. Only problem is that unfortunately you can not access it unless you pay for it. CT
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Post by londoner on Nov 19, 2010 3:55:26 GMT -5
My understanding is that the terms and conditions of FMP and the 1911 allow only personal use and forbid "look-ups" for other people.
from another forum: However, the 1911 can currently ONLY be accessed via FindmyPast, even at the National Archives, and their Terms and Conditions very clearly prohibit lookups for third parties. we can thus not allow look-up requests for the 1911 census, nor the provision of specific information from it for the benefit of third parties and these posts/threads will be closed or deleted by the moderators.
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Post by Sarch on Nov 19, 2010 4:14:58 GMT -5
Hi Londoner I mentioned it as not everyone is aware that they can access the 1901 and 1911 census at a Family History Centre - although I am not sure if all centres have access? The questions I store are usually personal ones as I don't have much time as I would like to spend there My problems are not all census related - I keep a running list rather like my shopping list - everytime I encounter a problem with people in my database I keep a record of it - so that when I manage to get to a Family Hisotry Centre - I don't waste time and know who I am looking for and if I am looking for a death or a baptism etc. Sarch
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2010 8:20:55 GMT -5
I repeat:- As far as I know Free Speech is still allowed in some places! By using terms like 'Expressly Forbid' these people are not making any friends ........... OR any more money for that matter! But they are ensuring the longevity of the Dictatorship! Seems they want the 1911 Census to be personally available only to those who pay them money! Well if these Dictators were to extract their excuses for heads from the mire they might be able to see that not can afford to pay for such items. Not only that but there are also many people who are not physically in a position to be able to access the records and they have no option but to rely on others to help them. Perhaps a little care and understanding would ultimately result in companies like this reaping in a few more pennies. I, for one, am not happy about paying money to companies who treat people like this. But if they are quite happy to keep their heads buried in the sand then I think that while they are in that position they make perfectly adequate BIKE RACKS!
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Post by londoner on Nov 19, 2010 9:21:44 GMT -5
I think it is a bit more complicated than that and involves potential legal action against the board for breach of copyright - which belongs to the National Archive. Whether there is a fine line between talking about and directly quoting entries I'm not too sure. I know that quotes from other UK censuses are always meant to acknowledge the copyright - perhaps a blanket acknowledgement at the head of the board would be a good idea.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Nov 19, 2010 12:42:11 GMT -5
Okay - we are only talking ABOUT the 1911 Census at the moment and not about anything actually in it. So even at the National Archives these records can only be accessed via FindmyPast. I need now to ask then just whose Terms and Conditions now apply? It looks like FindmyPast has found their way to a Monopoly on these records! OR HAVE THEY? From this last quote I would need to ask the question of just how binding are said Terms and Conditions? I am no Legal Expert but my lay mind is beginning to see rather large holes forming here. These Terms and Conditions are almost like telling someone that they can go visit the National Archives or National Library or even look at the poster on the local store advertising the travelling circus ........... but if they tell anyone what they have seen or read there then they are in big trouble! What a huge crock of cow manure - It might be interesting to get a qualified legal opinion on these Terms and Conditions as well as an outline of just how the Policing is accomplished. Of course there is one very simple solution to all of this! They can burn the whole b____y lot of the 1911 Census and then NOBODY can get to see it which then means that no-one can perform a LOOKUP for a THIRD PARTY. No contravention of the Terms and Conditions would then apply and everyone is happy! EXCEPT for those who make a quid out of making this stuff available so long as only those who pay for it can see it and promise not to tell anybody else what they have seen! What a bunch of W_____s
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 13:02:48 GMT -5
Yes I do have access to the 1911 census, Sarch.
Londoner, you are quite correct in saying that you are not allowed to do look-ups from the 1911 for anyone on a forum site and any forum site will close down posts made relating to this. They would get into BIG trouble for allowing posts to continue. Its just not worth there trouble.
I feel much the same as CT as I feel I have paid enough to be able to access this information so it should be up to me what I do with it. If anyone would like to e-mail me to discuss this further please feel free, my e-mail address is public on this site. ;D
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 13:35:23 GMT -5
Like you Sarch I believe that the parents of
John James Quick came from Devon.
A James and Ann Quick both born 1828 Devon.
Living in Kensington in 1871.
Lamorna
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Post by sue on Nov 19, 2010 13:36:09 GMT -5
Much has now been said, both in terms of the thread content that's long since strayed from Penwith genealogy and in terms of the big subject of the debate as to freedom of access to information. I just thought I'd add a wee crumb for a few UK residents on the 1911 subject (with apologies from the UK to everyone else interested in UK censuses etc.): free access is available at some IGI centres as Sarch says, internationally I believe, & at UK National Archives @ Kew; @ Birmingham till Christmas 2010; at Exeter till 26 March 2011; possibly for a few months yet? at Aberystwyth, or maybe not; Manchester, Nottingham, Tyne & Wear & Norwich did have 1911 free for a while but no longer. And, not free! Genes R as well as FMP sell 1911 access (same ownership) - and frustratingly I can't remember which site I was on recently said they were also going to sell it wef March 2011. I anticipate the price may drop off a little..... Scant consolation, I know. Also FMP has a free trial "once in a lifetime per household"! for I think 14 days! with a limit of 600 census look-ups (obviously subject to their terms & conditions inc. You can only use the Services and the Records for your PERSONAL family history research and not for commercial purposes, or to provide lookups for others.) Personally, I have, for example, in the past found properly planned for free trials can be most useful..... Sue
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Post by Sarch on Nov 19, 2010 13:41:24 GMT -5
Hi CT I think the rights to the 1911 census were up for bidding and Find My Past won. I don't think the Mormons were happy about it as I think they did try and get the rights but lost to Find My Past. They have subscriptions to Find My Past and make that available to users of the various Family History Centres at no charge. ;D Sarch
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 13:43:06 GMT -5
Are we allowed to stray from Penwith?
Just a query as I don't know but I realise that it happens.
Thankyou Sue for mentioning Exeter, I have just remembered
that they had access to the 1911.
Lamorna
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Post by Sarch on Nov 19, 2010 13:56:26 GMT -5
Hi Lamorna, Sue It occasionally happens that people move away from Penwith or move to Penwith from other areas so straying happens. I am mostly interested in Quicks from the Penwith area. ;D I have up-graded my software and am due for a free 2 week trial ;D ;D ;D I am planning it very carefully ;D ;D ;D Sarch
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 14:00:02 GMT -5
I can help with the Quicks from the Penwith area
if you want to e-mail me Sarch.
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