Dwens Hampton Tyack's children

[Zenobia]

Dwens/Duence Hampton, d/o James and Frances Hampton of Lelant was marreid to William Tyack.

William died in 1669, leaving a will in which he named his wife, and the following children:

John, William, James, Charles and Tiberia. Charles and James were under 21.

William must have died fairly young (his wife was b. in 1622), as he also mentioned his mother and two sisters in his will.

William's daughter Tiberia married William Lean.

I am wondering now if William's son Charles Tyack was the man who was having children at Towednack in the late 1600s, early 1700s....?

[Zenobia]

Ooops! It must have been. I see he had a daughter Duense chr. in 1704.

So Mary Tyack, who married James Trewhella was a great granddaughter of James Hampton of Lelant.

And Elizabeth Trewhella who married James' uncle John Trewhella was a granddaughter of James Hampton, being the daughter of Edward Hampton, brother of Dwens Tyack...

[Cornish Terrier]

Please refer back to the Trewhella Board - James Trewhella c. 1760.
This will give you a little more without me having to 'do it all again'!

[Zenobia]

From the James Trewhella thread....

ianjtrewhella said:

Before you get too hasty there is something you may need to check on!

Yes Mary Tyack was baptised at Towednack on the date you mention - BUT - if you check the Towednack information closely, you find that she was BURIED at Towednack April 9th, 1705!

But there is light at the end of the tunnel - it appears there was another Mary born probably about 1707 (black hole) and this is the one who married James Trewhela.

From what I have been able to work out over the years I can say that YES - Mary's father Charles was the son of William TYACK and DUENS (nee HAMPTON). ;D

Will place a note on the Hampton Board to reflect back to here.

Uh oh!

Charles did start out having children at Lelant in the mid to late 1680s, then went to Towednack. So 1707 is getting kind of late, unless he had more than one wife.

Maybe I jumped the gun here.

Let me go look up Mary Tyack's will...

[Zenobia]

Okay, the will of Mary Tyack names four children:

Edward
Charles
Wilmot Banfield, widow
Mary w/o James Trewhella

So this is definitely the widow of Charles.

Daughter Dwens must have died young.

I looked at the Towednack listings on Ricks board and saw the following:

Mary, d/o Charles Tyack, chr. 22 Nov 1702
Duense d/o Charles Tyack chr. 8 Oct 1704

Mary Tyack, infant, buried 9 April 1705.

Could this be a mistake and it was actually Duense who was buried? She would have been only 6 months old, whereas Mary was 2 1/2...

[Cornish Terrier]

Could be right - certainly worth thinking about I should think.
Especially as James Trewhela was bp. 1692.

[Cornish Terrier]

BUT - I have seen the term 'infant' used for children that were around the 3-5 year old mark so we need to consider it.

[Zenobia]

ianjtrewhella said:

BUT - I have seen the term 'infant' used for children that were around the 3-5 year old mark so we need to consider it.

That is absolutely correct. In fact, I have read somewhere that the term infant in some documents in some time periods could refer to anyone under age 21

This would be best demonstrated in the document that Henry Tudor put forth after siezing the English throne, in which he accused the former monarch of "the shedding of infant's blood" - an oblique reference to the Princes in the tower, who were actually ages 13 and 11.

While I do not think that this extreminty would be true of a PR, it could certainaly could go as far as referring to a young child.

So I think you are probably right and that a second Mary was b. probably in 1706, during part of the "Black Hole of Towednack"

The important thing is that we know from the Will of her mother that she did exist.

Here is the full list of children for the couple that I have found:

William chr. 31 Oct 1684, Lelant
Andrew chr. 14 Nov 1686, Lelant
Willmett chr. 2 Feb 1688/9, Lelant (also 4 Feb 1688/9, St. Ives)
James chr. 2 Nov 1690, Towednack
Charles chr. 19 Apr 1693, St. Ives
John chr. 28 Apr 1695, Towednack
Edward chr. 13 Feb. 1697/8, Towednack
Mary chr. 22 Nov 1702, Towednack
Duense chr. 8 Oct 1704, Towednack
Andrew chr. 4 Oct 1708, Towednack

Obviously we are missing lots of burials. It is possible that most are at Lelant.

Glancing at the names, I would suggest that Mary, w/o Charles Tyack, is quite possibly a daughter of Andrew Rosewall....

Now it is also interesting to note that daughter Wilmot, according to her mother's will is Wilmot Banfield, widow, which means that she married Edward Banfield, grandson of Edward Hampton and her second cousin. I note that in Edward Banfield's will, his overseer is James Trewhella and Mary Trehella is one of the witnesses.

[Cornish Terrier]

You 'may' well be right with the identification of Charles Tyack's wife as being a daughter of Andrew Rosewall.
But - we need to check back on the Rosewall Wills berore we 'claim her' as such.
There are a couple of things in what you just posted that help the scenario.
Charles Tyack was son of WILLIAM Tyack and 'Andrew' was not, to my knowledge, a Tyack name.
Therefore it does stand to reason that Andrew ROSEWALL 'may' have been her father - but we need some more evidence!

As for the 'infant' burials - I remember that I read something some years ago which mentioned that the word 'infant' in burials at one time (I 'think' around the late 1600-early 1700 mark) was assigned to the death/burial of a child up to the age of 5.

Let's work further on this and see what our 'new friends' may be able to contribute.

[Zenobia]

ianjtrewhella said:

You 'may' well be right with the identification of Charles Tyack's wife as being a daughter of Andrew Rosewall.
But - we need to check back on the Rosewall Wills berore we 'claim her' as such.
There are a couple of things in what you just posted that help the scenario.
Charles Tyack was son of WILLIAM Tyack and 'Andrew' was not, to my knowledge, a Tyack name.
Therefore it does stand to reason that Andrew ROSEWALL 'may' have been her father - but we need some more evidence!

I didn't say he WAS, I said there was a possibility, and so we should look into it... I think his wife's name was Wilmot, but I need to check...

Also found another child for Charles and Mary:

Dewens Tyack, bur. 28 Jan 1683/4 at Lelant.

So all in all, it looks like they lost a lot of children.

There was also an Andrew Tyack bur. at St. Ives in 1708, but not listed as 'infant' - 2 other children the same year were, so dunno if it was Charles' son or not.

[Zenobia]

Hmmmm.... According to Andrew Rosewall's will (1680), he did have a daughter named Mary, but his wife was named Mary also. He did have a daughter Wilmot (who m. Robert Curnow; her sister Margery married Michael Curnow, brother of Robert).

[Cornish Terrier]

OK - this 1683/4 Dewens is a new one but I need you to 'confirm' that this was a burial?
If so then it took them another 20 years before using that name again!

As for the Andrew buried in 1708 - My understanding is that this was the son of Charles and Mary who was baptised at Lelant in 1686.
The year he was buried another son of the same name was baptised at Towednack and, according to John Tyack, was buried the same day.

There seem to be a few anomalies here so I will give you a brief outline of my current understanding of the family of Charles and Mary. (There may be a couple of notes attached here also) :-

Dewens - bur. Lelant Feb 7th, 1683 (KW)

William - bp. Lelant Oct 31st, 1684 - bu. Lelant Nov 21st, 1733.
(Married Jane GILES at Lelant Jan 1st, 1724) *** SEE NOTES

Andrew - bp. Lelant Nov 14th, 1686 - bu. St Ives Apr 18th, 1708
(bp. dates from IGI and also John Tyack )

Wellenett - bp. Lelant Feb 2nd, 1686 (IGI/John Tyack) - bu. 1688 (John Tyack)

Wilmot - bp. St Ives Feb 4th, 1689 (IGI) m. Edward Banfield 1719

James - bp. Towednack Nov 2nd, 1690 (Hoblyn) - bu. Lelant Oct 18th, 1733 (John Tyack)
(m. Mary Richards at Lelant 1721)

Charles - bp. St Ives Feb 19th, 1693 (IGI)
(m. Mary Cock at Lelant 1721)

John - bp. Towednack Apr 28th, 1695 - d. c.Aug 1738 (John Tyack) ** SEE NOTES

Edward - bp. Towednack Feb 13th 1697 (Hoblyn) - bu. Lelant Jun 2nd, 1747 (John Tyack)
(m. Margaret ? bef. 1735) ** SEE NOTES

Mary - bp. Towednack Nov 22nd, 1702 - bu. Towednack Apr 9th, 1705 (both Hoblyn)

Duence - bp. Towednack Oct 8th, 1704 (Hoblyn)
(m. Benjamin Richards at Lelant 1719)

Mary - bn. c. 1706/7 - d. aft. Nov 1752
(m. James Trewhela at Towednack in 1728)

Andrew - bp. Towednack Oct 31 1708 (Hoblyn and B.T.'s) - bu. Towednack Oct 31, 1708 (John Tyack)

** NOTES **

William - His Will was written October 29th 1734 and proved at Helston May 13th 1736.
But this shows him writing his Will AFTER he died!

BUT his brother James, in his 1733 Will, names brothers William and John 'of Helston'.

John - named as a 'dyer, of Helston' in his brother's Will and supposedly buried about August 1738 according to John Tyack.

Edward - I have a note suggesting Edward 'may' have been married twice.
Some sources link his son John t a mother named Elizabeth and, if so, then daughter Mary would also be daughter of Elizabeth.
If there were two marriages then son William may belong to either one.
Daughter Margaret was baptised as daughter of Edward and Margaret and this may be where an error has occurred.
Edward's son John named a daughter Margaret but - after mother or sister?

BUT - Margaret Tyack, widow, was buried at Towednack in 1796!

Leaving it back with you for now! ;D

[Zenobia]

Thanks for all the new info.

A couple of anomalies (that is my new fave word - can you tell? ;D )

1. I just checked the IGI and see that the first Wilmot should be 1688, not 1686.

2. There is no burial of Andrew Tyack shown in the Towednack BTs on the same day as the chr., so I suggest John Tyack looked at it wrong and mistook the chr. for a burial.

3. Mary Tyack's will names "My four children" and then goes on to list Charles, Edward, Wilmot Banfield and Mary Trewhella. So all the rest must have predeceased her. She wrote her will in 1746, so the info you found on William, John and James all fits.

Duence m. Benjamin Richards is a bit of a problem, however. We have her b. in 1704, and you have her marrying in 1719 - marrying at 15 we know from years of researching experience was almost unheard of in Cornwall in the early 1700s - late marriages were the norm.

I would suggest the the Duence Tyack who married Benjamin Richard was the one chr. in Lelant 13 Dec 1691 to William Tyack. William was Charles' brother, and hence another son of Dwens Hampton Tyack.

[Zenobia]

Just found this in my Lelant notes:

Dwens, d/o Charles Tyack bp. 9? Nov. 1683
Dewens d/o Charles Tyack, bur. 28 Jan 1683/4

That is from the Bishop's Transcripts

[Cornish Terrier]

HMMMMMM!
A couple of interesting things you have mentioned here.

Have just updated the info on 1683 Duence (sic.)

ANOMALIES - Crikey! - I have been using that for years!

With 'the first WILMOT' - never mind IGI - WHAT is recorded in the PR??? - I can a little sense in this but I need more accurate info.)

Andrew Tyack - 1708
I can see your point - EXCEPT that we have a burial of Apr 4th 1708 at St Ives for Andrew Tyack.
The - Hoblyn/B.T.'s) a baptism for Andrew Tyack at Towednack October 31st 1708.
Then comes the info from John Tyack regarding the Burial on the same day in October 1708.

Re Mary Tyack's Will - Yep but Edward did not survive for the Proving of said Will as he was buried, apparently, at Lelant June 2nd 1747 (John Tyack).

Duence m. Benjamin Richards - you may be right there but I have never really looked into it.

Suggest we pursue this further as time and other constraints permit.

Had better check some more postings before calling it quits for the night.