|
Post by teylu on Jan 7, 2008 14:46:55 GMT -5
Hello all, I'm new to the forum and noticed your Trewhella thread. Is "Trewela" considered a variant of this surname?
I have a Redruth parish marriage: 04 Nov 1780: Ann Trewela marrying William Hocking "of the Parish of Illogan." Witnesses were Wm Smith (apparent clerk) and Richards Trewela. Groom William Hocking made his mark, while Ann signed.
I believe this couple to be the William Hocking buried 30 Aug 1818 at Illogan (at age 67, hence b ca 1751) ; and Ann buried 11 Feby 1841 also at Illogan Churchyard (at age 88, hence b ca 1753).
I also believe this is the William Hocking who left a LWT, dated 25 July 1818, proved 4th (*or may say 7th) Oct 1820, in which he names wife Ann; daughters Jane, wife of James Richards, and Ann, wife of Stephen Allen; as well as sons William Hocking (possibly buried 8 Mar 1841 at age 48 at Illogan), and John Hocking.
Per leasehold records, it appears William Hocking (the elder) may have had a brother named John.
If anyone can connect to or offer further information concerning these lines, I would appreciate hearing from you. Again, I do not know if the Ann "Trewela," wife of William Hocking, might be a "Trewhella."
-Sandy
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Feb 11, 2008 9:52:34 GMT -5
Sandy - 'Trewela' is certainly a variant of the Trewhella name of which I have at least 21 variations. (This is not counting Trevella (Trevela) and Trewolla which are different surnames.) Ann was baptised as Ann TREWHEELA at Camborne 19th November 1758 and was daughter of William TREWHEELER and Jane (nee HOCKING) who married at Illogan 5th January 1746. The witness, Richard Trewela, would have been Anne's brother who was baptised at Camborne 21st May 1749 and buried at Illogan 29th January 1817. It is possible you have identified the burials of this couple but I must question the ages at death, in particular that of Anne. I know that an age at death cannot, particularly in those days, be considered as accurate. But another consideration is that, given the age is given as 88, it might actually have been 83 in which case a transcription error may have occurred. (Those old documents can be extremely ard to read and '8' and '3' can be very easily confused.) I have not yet tried to pursue the Hocking line here (Crikey - the Trewhella (var.) part has been hard enough ) but it appears you may have produced something of relevance to this part of 'my' lot. I can trace Anne's ancestry back via her father, William TREWHEELER, his father Mathew TREWHELYEA, his father Charles TREWHEELAH to a 'very likely' link with Christopher TREWHELLA of Helston who had connections (and very likely related) with my family at Towednack. This Christopher Trewhella seems to have had some associations with Christopher Cock and, I think, married one of Christopher Cock's daughters. Much of this is yet to be absolutely proved but circumstantial evidence points to the probability. Look forward to more thoughts on this and will respond as I can. Ian
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Oct 16, 2014 0:04:47 GMT -5
CT On a previous thread we were discussing Mary Jane Davey and her grandfather Martin Davey, discovering along the way that Martin had many more children than first thought and one of them, Richard, came out to SA in 1858 on the Storm Cloud. Another family on that same ship was that of William Hocking. He was bpt 1809 in Redruth and married Sarah Johns on 7 Feb 1831. William was my ggg grandfather. I had parents for him but hadnt got around to attempting to trace him back any further. Anyhow, I have recently joined the Hocking Descendants Society and received my Welcome Pack today which included my "family tree". Nothing I didnt already know except for the ggggg grandparents, William Hocking b1753 Redruth m 4 Nov 1780 Ann Trewella. Same people as mentioned above!!
So, have there been any developments in the six years since these two posts?
Can you confirm that William, the son of William and Ann was born 1783 and m Jennifer/Jane Brown 4 July 1874 28 Jan 1807 in Redruth? They were then the parents of the William Hocking who came out here.
Spike
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 16, 2014 3:07:39 GMT -5
Hi Spike - interesting about the 'potential' connection but my initial check of information suggests maybe someone has hold of the wrong end of the stick! Firstly William Hocking and Ann Trewhella had two sons baptized as William - first baptized 8th November 1789 at Illogan and presumably died young and then the second baptized 22nd April 1792 at Illogan. I have not attempted to find marriges or other information about the children of William and Ann as yet but there was certainly no William in 1783. The other children were Mary baptized 3rd March 1782 Illogan, Anne baptized 19th February 1786 Illogan, Jane baptized 4th March 1796 Illogan and Maria baptized 23rd December 1798 Illogan. I checked FamilySearch and the other William Hockings (sic.) baptized at Illogan/Redruth around that time are:- 18th May 1783 William son of William and Elizabeth Hocking baptized at Redruth 23rd April 1786 William son of William and Jennifer Hocking baptized at Redruth If the 1783 date is correct then I am not sure about the marriage as unless it was the 1759 marriage of William Hocking and Elizabeth Harris at Illogan. There is no other marriage for William and Elizabeth at Illogan or Redruth that could account for the 1783 baptism. So if it is being claimed the parents of William are William Hocking and Ann Trewhella then I suggest the suppliers of that information need to review their work. CT
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Oct 16, 2014 15:52:18 GMT -5
CT - you are such a party pooper LOL.
But many thanks once again for your thorough research and reasoning for the disconnect to what some are obviously thinking was a connection. I was trying last night to provide links to send back to the Society but some of the Family Search links weren't working for some reason. Will have another go over the weekend.
The William Hocking who came out here had many sons as did their sons, so the tree in question is the largest in terms of membership of the Society. Presumably they all have that incorrect information. Oh dear!
Spike
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Oct 17, 2014 0:12:32 GMT -5
Nothing unusual in that as unfortunately if one person gets it wrong then there are so many people that copy blindly the error is perpetuated.
If you can get some details about the early William in Australia along with a list of the children in order of birth it might help find the correct link. What do you know about the passage to Australia - were there any travelling companions? If we can locate siblings who perhaps also came downunder then that might also help with correct identification.
CT
|
|
|
Post by zibetha on Oct 17, 2014 20:02:58 GMT -5
Can you confirm that William, the son of William and Ann was born 1783 and m Jennifer/Jane Brown 4 July 1874 in Redruth? They were then the parents of the William Hocking who came out here.
(I need someone to instruct me on how to "quote" here)
Spike, what is the 4 July 1874 date about?
Zib
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Oct 17, 2014 20:46:26 GMT -5
Ooops. Damned squished up writing on the pedigree chart. 4 July 1874 try 1774 is Jane Brown's date of bpt. Date of marriage for William and Jane looks like 28 Jan 1807 at Redruth. Thx for picking that up Zib.
S
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Oct 17, 2014 21:05:03 GMT -5
Hi Zib,
Don't write in the Quick Reply window instead you will need to use the Reply button on the right of the window. A new window will open up which gives formatting options. You will need to cut and paste the quote, so do the cut on the bit you want to quote. Then you will need to press the quote icon button right next to the smilie icon. A new line will open up with a section that says insert quote here. Insert(paste) the quote you had cut.
When you're done press Create Post at bottom right.
Simple
Spike
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Dec 4, 2014 15:41:51 GMT -5
I didn't think that this exercise would contribute much towards establishing correct identification but I thought it would at least be useful for me to revisit the family and follow up any loose ends.
Parents: William Hocking b abt 1807 and Sarah Johns married 7 Feb 1831, Redruth, Cornwall
Children: all born Redruth, Cornwall. William and Henry didn't come to Australia. The parents and the other children (except Ezekiel) came to South Australia in 1858 on the Storm Cloud. Ezekiel arrived the previous year on the Caucasian. There were no others on the ships that I could link to this family.
William b about 1828 no info Henry bpt 8 Feb 1832, d after 1851 John bpt 18 Oct 1833, d 17 Nov 1899 Harrietville, VIC, AUS Samuel bpt 1 Mar 1835 d 6 Apr 1905 Broken Hill, NSW , AUS Ezekiel bpt 31 Oct 1836 (b 24 Jun 1836) d 25 Apr 1887 Harrietville, VIC, AUS Stephen bpt 5 Aug 1838 d aft 1874...should be SA but cannot find? Philip bpt 2 Apr 1840 d 10 Feb 1867 Burra, SA, AUS Frederick bpt 19 Aug 1841 d aft 1858 probably VIC? Richard b abt 1844 d 1902 Broken Hill, NSW, AUS The red bits are incomplete info.
I basically had nothing on William and Henry. I've now found William in Michigan, USA . He was born (well) before William and Sarah were married. It's all very confusing. Both William and Henry appear in the 1841 census as "Williams". The first child named is William aged 10, the others follow in order of age. William aged 13 appears last. He married Catherine Moore, Jan to Mar 1852 at Redruth and is in the US census in 1860. The Hocking Descendants Society (HDS) tells me that he most likely emigrated in 1852 on the Mountaineer with Catherine heading over the following year. William dies 21 Feb 1907, Marquette Michigan USA. Widower, father Wm Hocking, mother Sarah Johns. Headstone says 1827 as year of birth. Website details suggest 12 October 1827. Copy of death certificate found, dob confirmed.
There is a Henry Hocking, aged 29 listed in the William Hocking household in 1860 census. HDS says possible migration arrive 1851 departure Liverpool aboard “Forest King”.
While I was waiting for a response from HDS I was having a look at Sarah Johns. I had been "given" an unsourced date of birth as 6 Jul 1807 and a bpt of 1809. I've now looked through the Baptism images on Family Search and I think I found her as bpt 6 Sept 1807. Parents are William Johns and Sarah Paul. Curiously there is no bpt record for Richard. During the FMP free weekend I did find a Richard Paull Hocking, birth year 1846!! Hmmm. Also under the heading "note to self" re "Ezekiel". This name does not seem to appear in prior generations of Hockings. It does turn up frequently on the Johns side. Might be some help in getting the Johns line sorted.
So all up, while not finding any missing link this exercise did have some value. Not sure where we go from here but I have yet to put to HDS that they have the wrong parents for William.
Spike
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 4, 2014 22:11:11 GMT -5
Spike - on reading your latest my first thoughts were that you have inadvertently answered your own questions in regards to the elder sons of William and Sarah. So on a hunch I did some searching and discovered I was right! There are a couple of pointers to the solution:- 1. The two eldest sons were named WILLIAM in the 1841 Census 2. The elder of those two sons was recorded LAST in the Census record. Solution - the eldest son was probably ILLEGITIMATE. William illegitimate son of Sarah Johns of The Hill was baptized 12th August 1828 at RedruthWilliam Henry son of William and Sarah Hocking of Hill, miner, was baptized 8th February 1832 at RedruthBy 1851 'William Henry' had become 'Henry' obviously to save confusion but as there were two and a half years between the baptism of William Johns and the marriage of his mother to William Hocking it is not clear whether William Hocking was really the father. Bastardy Bonds, if they survive, might hold the answer but there is no mention of a reputed father in the baptism record for William Johns. Also of interest is that on the same day William Johns was baptized there was also a baptism for James son of Stephen and Anna Johns of The Hill. William and Sarah Hocking named a son Stephen so it is very possible that Stephen and Sarah were siblings. CT
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 4, 2014 22:48:41 GMT -5
I would step back a little from making the assumption that Sarah was the daughter of William Johns and Sarah Paull! If you check FamilySearch for children baptized at Redruth to William and Sarah Johns you will find a list ranging from 1784 to 1807. William Johns and Sarah Paull did not marry until 1802! Also note the reference in my last to the child of Stephen Johns of The Hill baptized the same day as Sarah's son William in 1828. Stephen son of William and Sarah Johns was baptized at Redruth 23rd January 1791. It is possible that William Johns married twice with both wives named Sarah and it is also possible that the 1802 marriage is that of a much older couple. I am not able to find a record of the earlier marriage for William and Sarah Johns and unfortunately I also don't have access to copies of the original registers for Redruth between 1749 and 1804 so I am not able to verify the details of the children of William and Sarah baptized at Redruth during that period. FamilySearch is my only source at the moment so I am reluctant to come to any conclusions but it does seem to be the right family given the appearance of names such as Stephen (bp. 1791) and Ezekial (bp. 1795). CT
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Dec 8, 2014 17:37:02 GMT -5
Thank you CT. It's all about knowing where to look and what to look for. You manage to nail it every time! I think you may well be correct about Sarah and Stephen being siblings too. Had a bit of a look for Stephen and Anna and James but nothing is popping out at me yet.
Spike
|
|
|
Post by Cornish Terrier on Dec 9, 2014 3:54:51 GMT -5
Spike - nothing for Redruth has been transcribed on the OPC site as yet - at least not for the relevant period so you will need to use FamilySearch.org. There are at least four or five records for baptisms of children of Stephen and Anna/Hannah that I have seen so far. Some of those baptisms are Non-Conformist so you should find a couple of them in the OPC Non-Conformist baptisms. It is only the Established Church records that are lacking on OPC at the moment. In some cases the NC registers give the maiden name of the mother and I see that in this case Stephen Johns' wife was Hannah (Anna) Angove.
CT
|
|
|
Post by spikeharwood on Dec 9, 2014 5:58:13 GMT -5
I've always wondered about this. Is it because the parish is so large and there are not enough volunteers to transcribe?
I just had a thought on William, son of Sarah Johns. It does look like he went to America. Would he have needed to provide some proof of who he was back then? Was the parish providing copies of birth registrations? And if so might he have immigrated under the name of William Johns? Or not!
And thanks for the tip on NC's for Stephen's children.
Spike
|
|