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Post by Cornish Terrier on Apr 29, 2007 19:04:30 GMT -5
Two notes in one Firstly to Calswimmer and your note regarding Trewhellas buried at Trentham. John Thomas Trewhella was the brother of my grandfather Henry William Trewhella. (JT was known as 'Jack' and HW as 'Harry'). I have no idea as to the reasoning for John's second name but I can tell you that all children of that family had two Christening names - John Thomas, Ellen Margaret, Mary Elizabeth, Catherine Ann and Henry William. Ah - I think I have the answer! The children named above (incl. John Thomas) were children of William Trewhella and Margaret (nee Landrigan). A look at Margaret Landrigan's family shows that she had a brother - THOMAS J Landrigan who died near Trentham in February 1900. Although John Thomas Trewhella was born in 1891 it is likely he was named after his uncle. Benjamin and Betsy Trewhella were my 2xgt-grandparents and, therefore, grandparents to John Thomas and Henry William Trewhella. Now - The THOMAS and NOALL information you show is very interesting but I will have to pursue it later. BTW - this is not the first Clarinda Thomas to have married a Trewhella! 21 Dec 1783 - Redruth - Mathew TREWHELA m. Clarinda THOMAS (Just thought I would throw that one in! ) Cornishmaid - I have access to all the UK Census records courtesy of 'a friend' so let me know just what you need and I will try and track it down. I have already downloaded images for all Trewhella (var.) records for 1901 and 1891 and am about half way through 1841 before I work through the rest. In which Census did you find William Noall at Trelyon with a daughter Betsy bn. c. 1822?? If it was the 1841 Census then you probably have ..... Have just looked at the 1841 Census and I believe this is what you have seen. In that case you are looking at my 2xgt-grandmother who was 'of Treloyan' when married. Now - Fanny Noall at Trelyon in 1851 with children William and Betsey. She was wife of William Noall who was the elder brother of Betsey (my 2xgt-grandmother). William and his son (William) both died in Victoria, Australia but I am yet to find out about the rest of his family. Fanny Noall was nee COGAR. And (you clever devil) you have just supplied me with the Baptism date for Betsey Noall! That Baptism of 2 Feb 1823 will be that of my 2xgt-grandmother! I know, from the family bible, that she was born at Treloyan, St Ives 11 Jan 1823 so this is definitely her baptism. (Especially as parents are William and Ann!) Nancy Kernick, like many other girls named Nancy, was often recorded as Ann. And you may find that, in most cases, Ann was the actual name with Nancy being the common 'nickname?' LAST LECTURE for the night: - "Cornish Terrier say - do not be confused by man who call himself farmer today, miner next day or fisherman other day - he might be all on any one day!" ;D In Cornwall, particularly down West, you will find that occupations changed often and this would have been mostly on a seasonal basis. There would have been times, however, when other factors forced a change of 'given occupation' but it was largely seasonal. When the fish are running - you go fishing to make money and when that is not happening you may be farming or mining. End of 'lecture' and I am off to bed so I can work again tonight. Looking forward to replies from you both.
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Post by cornishmaid on Apr 30, 2007 15:06:54 GMT -5
Okay, I admit it, I'm even more full of than when we started this Have been trying to sort out the Noall baptisms with parents William and Ann/Nancy. I'm sure they keep changing their names and professions just to flummox me... not that I'm paranoid or anything! A William Noall married an Ann/Nancy King... they did call one child Nancy King Noall, which was helpful. Then there's William Noall that married Ann/Nancy Kernick.. 2 of the children had Kernick as a middle name, Thomasine and Richard. So that's 3 baptisms sorted for the minute. I then tracked the Census returns through, and was able to account for a few more baptisms. Through a process of elimination of baptism dates I then worked out that the William Noall that married Ann Kernick was born to Alexander Noall and Honor Major. Until I found that all of the baptisms to a William Noall, Miner, and Ann Noall, included Alexander Noal and Honor Major Noall. The baptisms of William Noall and Thomasin Kernick Noall were the only 2 which were attributed to William (Miner) and "Nancy"; the rest of the baptisms (as followed through the censii?) were under William (Farmer) and Ann. I hope this makes sense I then tried going back through the Peters line to see if the connection to the Trewhellas came through there. Mary Ann Peters's brother, John, married a Mary Bone (father: Edward Bone) from Redruth. I did find a John Trewhella marrying a Jessie Bone, but this was in Madron. At the moment this does not look like the same Bone family, so another dead end. In case you didn't have them, Thomasin Kernick Noall was baptised on 7 April 1817, William on 15 January 1819, and Richard Kernick Noall on 19 June 1825.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 1, 2007 7:23:00 GMT -5
Thanks m'dear - will take another look through this a bit later tonight and see what more I can make of it all. Currently trying to sort thrugh the two large piles of paperwork that have built up on my computer desk so I can make some room to move.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 1, 2007 17:56:23 GMT -5
All righty me dear. Just a further thought in case you get bored Having exhausted the Noall and the Bone connections, I thought I'd try the Bryant side of things. I found a Matthew Trewhella Bryant, b 7 February 1857; father: George Bryant; Mother: Grace Quick Trewhella!! Tomorrow I will see if I can tie George in with the rest of my Bryants, to see if this could be the Trewhella connection we were looking for. (I live in hope! ) Cheers for now
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 2, 2007 11:53:20 GMT -5
Well me luvvly - good look with that one and I hope you find something. But I have to say (without being discouraging) that I don't think this will solve the problem. I would like to know more about George Bryant also but I think it 'may' be a dead end as far as Clarinda is concerned. I know that George Bryant was born c. 1826 (1871 Census) at St Ives and that he was (in 1871) a Ship Carpenter. He married Grace Quick Trewhella at Towednack October 17th, 1853. As previously mentioned there was another Clarinda Thomas who married into the Trewhella(sic.) family but that was up around Redruth and I can account for most of that family. (And she would be a good many years before what we are dealing with.) 'Our' Clarinda Thomas was, I understand, baptised at Ludgvan 15th April 1798 as daughter of John and Ann Thomas. She married Martin Trewhella at Ludgvan 25th October 1818 and died at St Ives, age 94, in 1891. Her husband, Martin, died at Towednack in 1844 and was buried there as 'of Halsetown' aged 59. Their first child was a daughter named CLARINDA and she married Samuel BARKER at St Ives in 1841. According to the 1871 Census Samuel Barker was already deceased. Now - the only two children (that I currently know of) were:-Elizabeth Ann Barker (bn. c. 1843) who married a Henry Mitchell. Clarinda Barker (bn. 1846 St Erth) who married an Edward Richards. OF COURSE - there is another option that may be considered! There may have been no direct relationship at all. Clarinda Trewhella died in 1891 at the age of 94. Martin Trewhella (husband) died in 1844. I was thinking that Clarinda may have been associated with the Bryant and/or Noall families in some way other than a relation. Remember that she was widowed in 1844 and she appears in each Census through to 1881. (She died just before the 1891 Census) Unfortunately, I have not found anything yet in the Census Records. I will leave it to you for a while and then I will take another look myself to see what might be found.
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Post by cornishmaid on May 2, 2007 17:12:25 GMT -5
Now see, I'm a thinking that the Clarinda part isn't the questionable part in this Noall family. Clarinda Richards could account for the first name, but it's where the Trewhella part came from that has been bothering me. I think the Grace Quick Trewhella marrying a Bryant is as close as I'm going to get at present. Having said that I get back to William Bryant marrying Margery THOMAS on 31 May 1789... I could be going round in circles for years here
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Post by Cornish Terrier on May 4, 2007 8:24:51 GMT -5
Keep heart m'dear - we will solve the problem ------ eventually!
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 14:54:46 GMT -5
Cornishmaid - just to let you know I am having another look at this Noall situation. Would be very happy if you could supply me with further details on the baptisms for Thomasine Kernick Noall, William Noall and Richard Kernick Noall. Were they all at St Ives and, if so, I would be interested to see if you have come up with a baptism for Samuel Noall who would have been born 'about' 1819 and, in 1841, was a Schoolmaster living with his family at Treloyan, St Ives. I believe I may have just found Samuel in the 1851 Census. He is at Leake, Lincolnshire, age 30, Schoolmaster, born St Ives. With him is his wife Grace, age 27, also born at St Ives. And Andrew STEVENS, age 16, born St Ives, who is a pupil teacher. Although both Samuel and Grace were born at St Ives it appears they did not marry there so that is another lead that needs looking into. This has not, as yet, helped identify the origins of Clarinda Trewhella Noall. But it has given me a little more to work with in regards to the family of Betsey Noall (my ancestor). I would also like to know more about your conclusions regarding William Noall and his origins as I have always found this one a little confusing and have not seriously gotten back into looking at it. Will try now to see what more I might be able to find regarding the elusive Clarinda and, if anything is found, will let you know in a following note.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 22, 2007 17:29:16 GMT -5
Been a while since we looked at this one but I have been trying to do a few things tonight. Unfortunately I must make this note quickly as I need to get to bed. But I did find one very interesting thing in the Census records tonight. In 1901 at Fore St, St Ives there is a 'female servant' in the household of Robert William Martin. This servant was Clarenda R Noall, age 24, bn. St Ives. Now, the interesting part of this is that I cannot find a baptism, so far, for this girl. Apart from that, her age is very similar to Clarinda Richards d/o Edward Richards and Clarinda Barker (whose mother was Clarinda Trewhella) One problem is that Clarenda Noall was bn St Ives and Clarinda Richards (in consecutive Census) is born at Marazion. I had been wondering if the St Ives girl may have been Clarinda RICHARDS Noall and therefore some connection. But looks like I am wrong again. There has to be a reason for naming this girl Clarinda Trewhella Noall! I will try and take another look at this after work tonight - but just now I am worn out, frustrated, tired, frustrated etc.......
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 23, 2007 7:08:10 GMT -5
Mm, interesting. Firstly the baptisms you wanted... Thomasin Kernick Noal daughter of William & Nancy bapt. 7 April 1817 (Father's occ: Miner) Richard Kernick Noall son of William & Ann bapt. 19 June 1825 (Farmer) Samuel Noall son of William & Nancy bapt. 25 March 1820 (Miner) Samuel Noall son of William & Ann bapt. 17 August 1834 (Miner) Willm. Noall son of William & Ann bapt. 23 October 1829 (Farmer) All these baptisms were in St Ives. The Clarinda R Noall you found in the 1901 census was Clarinda Richards Noall. She was born Oct/Nov/Dec Qtr 1870 Pz District, she married William Trevorrow Rowe in 1906, and she died on 21 December 1965. Her parents were Andrew Noall and Mary Wall Noall (yep, another two Noalls marrying) . Andrew Noall's parents were Andrew Noall and Clarinda Richards. Hope this helps a bit. Will try to get back to this a bit later.
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 23, 2007 16:10:36 GMT -5
Thankyou for this latest. The later Samuel (1834) and William (1829) have been found in the 1841 Census at Hellesvere, St Ives. Father William was then a farmer aged 30 (+/-) and his wife Ann was also aged 30 (+/-). (I use the +/- because adults in the 1841 Census had their ages rounded (usually) down to the nearest five years.) With them they had children William (11), Samuel (7), Nancy (4), and John (9 mths). This does not help a great deal right now except for the fact there is a separate family of William and Ann (Nancy) Noall at St Ives. Also interesting is that Clarinda features among the Noall family including Andrew and Clarinda Noall in 1841 and 1851 with a daughter named Clarinda. This has not helped us greatly with the Trewhella connection but ... Another part of the problem that I have, just now, tried to have another look at seems to produce some more headaches. When married William Bryant Noall's father was recorded as Phillip Noall, fisherman and, at the moment, I do not know the name of Phillip's wife. I would expect that either she was a Bryant, or that Phillip Noall's mother was a Bryant but that is not helping right now. Have had a quick trawl through the 1841 and 1851 Cencus and have, so far, found nothing of help. Need to call it quits now and have a very quick look at the rest of the postings before I get to bed. Have to deal with the Pub again after another 'wear you out' night last night. Reckon I might get five or six hours sleep before I have to confront it all again.
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 23, 2007 17:08:21 GMT -5
Just a quick one before I too get some shut eye... William Bryant Noall parents were Phillip Noall and Margery Bryant. Margery's parents were William Bryant and Margery Thomas. Phillip's parents were Peter Noall and Mary Harry. According to my records that is Don't think that helps much, but is a bit more info No further forward with the Trewhella link as yet
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Post by Cornish Terrier on Jun 25, 2007 15:37:58 GMT -5
Working backwards - No, unfortunately I have found nothing more as yet on the Trewhella link - BUT I WILL FIND IT. I am guessing that Margery BRYANT was baptised after 1812 as I do not have her recorded in my system. I do, however, have her parents and earlier siblings recorded so that is something, I guess. I have been getting myself a little confused here but think I have worked something out. I agree that the Bryant part fits in and that Margery was born or baptised after 1812. It is the NOALL link that now becomes the problem here. You mention that ....... I was starting to lose the plot but now have some idea of things. I have some details of Peter Noall and his marriage to Mary Harry and have a list of seven children. It appears all the baptismal information is from IGI but my drama here is that there is no Phillip among them. It makes sense that there should be a son named Phillip given that this was the name of Peter Noall's father. So - I do need some more details if you can supply them. Other than that - the information has been helpful and the links seem to look reasonably sound. I would certainly like enough to make some of this 'proof positive' so let's see how we go. And let's find that elusive Trewhella link. Grrrrrrrrr!
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 25, 2007 16:16:50 GMT -5
Ok... am getting myself confused here, but the children of Peter Noall and Mary (Harry) that I have are: Mary bapt. 19 October 1774 Ann bapt. 1 December 1776 Elisabeth bapt. 20 May 1781 Philip bapt. 7 December 1783 Margaret bapt. 3 September 1786 Catharine bapt. 5 October 1788 Padgey bapt. 1 November 1793 Peter bapt. 2 October 1796 Jane bapt. 4 July 1799 Do they tally up with your records?
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Post by cornishmaid on Jun 25, 2007 16:41:41 GMT -5
Oh, forgot, I have Margery Bryant baptised on 5 April 1795.
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