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Essellem Gelleikem!
« Thread Started on Oct 21, 2009, 10:23pm »
Hi Everybody!

I am a Polish Lipka Tatar, descended from the White Horde of Siberia, but I have a Cornish great-grandmother, Liza Lugg from St Just. I have already made quite a lot of progress tracing my Cornish ancestry. There appears to be a wealth of documentary information available, and websites like that of Rob Oat's have been a great help.

I have set myself a target of filling in 8 generations back from Liza Lugg , which should take me back to 1600. I am about a third of the way and I hope that the experts on this message board will help me with the missing links.

Two World Wars and 150 years of Partition make it very difficult to carry out genealogical research on my Polish ancestry, but I have already found two links from Liza Lugg to the early Piast Dynasty of Poland. I expect there will be many other surpises as I progress in my research.

Best regards,
Jim Lipka
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #1 on Oct 22, 2009, 2:41am »
Welcome to the site Jim and a pleasure to have another member from the old Eastern Bloc area of Europe! :)

We have another member here from Russia and I have a link there from one of my own families.

Look forward to trying to help you attain your goal. ;)

CT
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #2 on Oct 26, 2009, 7:13am »
Helo Jim,
You say that Liza was descended from the Piasts?
Would those descents have been through the Plantagenets and Courtenays?

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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #3 on Nov 2, 2009, 9:50am »
Does anyone know what "Essellem Gelleikem" means? It sounds Turkish and isn't Polish.

Tony M
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #4 on Nov 2, 2009, 10:25pm »
Hi Tony and Trencrom!

"Essellem Geleikem" is the Lipka Tatar equivalent of "Salaam aleikum". Tatar belongs to the Turkic group of languages. Tatars are a mixed ethnic group, composed of Mongols, Native Siberians, Central Asian Turks and Slavs.


There are two lines from Liza Lugg to the Piast Dynasty that I am aware of. One line is through St Margaret of Scotland. The ancestry of St Margaret's mother Agatha has long been a subject of dispute, but opinion now seems to favour an ancestry that includes the Piasts of Poland. The other line is through the Lords of Slane in Ireland. I have not found a link to the Courtenay family. I thought there was a link via the Fulfords of Devon, but this link now appears doubtful. I can supply you with the full links from Liza Lugg to the Piasts if you are interested.

Best regards,
Jim.
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #5 on Nov 2, 2009, 10:36pm »
Hi Cornish Terrier!

Thanks for your welcome message.

On some of the other message boards I have tried out, the resident experts seem to take a sadistic pleasure in trying to bully and humiliate new members who make posts. I can already see that the members of this board will be much more friendly and co-operative.

Best regards,
Jim.
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #6 on Nov 3, 2009, 4:26am »
Hi Jim. :)

I don't think I have really ever been involved with any of those other forums. :-/

But I can tell you that this particular venue was set up as a 'friendly' place which is just as it should be. 8-)

I try to make new members welcome and encourage them to 'feel at home' because, after all, we need there help as much as they might need ours. ;)

Genealogy is a hard enough slog as it is so if we can make it friendly and add a little fun here and there then so much the better! :)

As what might be termed 'the founder member' I am extremely proud to read your comments. :)

CT
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #7 on Nov 3, 2009, 6:27am »
Hi Jim,
Thanks for your response, and it is very interesting to see that we have probably been researching many of the same families.

I too have been searching medieval ancestries (some Cornish, some not) for many years now, including certain descents from St Margaret, the (earlier) Fulfords and the barons of Slane as well. I have also traced the ancestry of the last named family and as you say, they have Piast ancestry as well as ancestry from numerous other European royal houses.

Not sure if I have previously heard about Agatha possibly being a Piast or not, I was aware of course about possible Hungarian and German connections and also the theory thst she may have been a daughter of Yaroslav the Wise, Grand Duke of Kiev.

I would be interested in the links you mention to see if they tie in with the lines I have been looking at -- you can send these to me by PM if you like.

Thanks

Trencrom
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #8 on Nov 4, 2009, 6:15am »
Hello there Jim, I have been reading this thread although I haven't really got any information to add. It did intrigue me that you talk about people's being nasty on other forums and bullying new members!!! How sad is that? The Cornish word is "omwaryer"--- I won't translate! :)

One word of warning, I would say, is that when it comes to Medieval genealogies a lot of the stuff out there is very unreliable. I have a couple of lines that reach far back into the Middle Ages but trying to find any two bits of information that actually agree is incredibly difficult. The main problem is that the dates are often wildly variable! A couple of years out here and there is to be expected but when it starts to become a century or so it is definitely a problem. It seems that there are some people out there who are just so desperate to "prove" some kind of royal lineage etc that they will link anything to anything else, go off bad records and make assumptions "half-cocked"! The problem is that they then upload their information here, there and everywhere- especially LDS, and it becomes "fact".

Watch out for that!!!

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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #9 on Nov 4, 2009, 8:27am »
Hi Malcolm!

I agree entirely with you regarding medieval genealogy. I get annoyed when I see that people have uploaded genealogical databases to the internet where children have dates of birth earlier than their supposed parents. It is probably better to treat medieval genealogy more as an entertainment than as historical research.

Best regards,
Jim
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #10 on Nov 4, 2009, 12:54pm »

Nov 4, 2009, 6:15am, malcolm wrote:

One word of warning I would say- when it comes to Medieval genealogies a lot of the stuff out there is very unreliable.


Don't rely on pedigrees on the net -- your best guide are good secondary and primary sources
Will eleBORATE LATER
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #11 on Nov 4, 2009, 2:43pm »
Trencrom, if you have anything reliable on the Beauchamps of Binnerton, the Arundels of Lanherne and Tolverne, the Godolphins and the Vivian family I would be most grateful. I have been going of the Visitations and internet (sourced) material, but it is still problematical!!!
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #12 on Nov 6, 2009, 7:06am »
Hi Malcolm,
Have sent you a PM

Trencrom
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Re: Essellem Gelleikem!
« Reply #13 on Nov 6, 2009, 8:04am »
Thanks Trencrom, I'll reply here! I will have a look at those sites you have mentioned. The main conenction to all of these families is though Cowlin(g)- it's not 100% but I am fairly confident, all thanks to a mistake corrected by jmg, aka Jen! The name Archer is also up there, basically once you get into Arundel, Godolphin et al they are all related to everyone else!!!!
:)
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